Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qUywz-000023C; Mon, 1 Aug 94 18:06 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8281; Mon, 01 Aug 94 18:05:21 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8278; Mon, 1 Aug 1994 18:05:21 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7540; Mon, 1 Aug 1994 17:04:23 +0200 Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 11:03:50 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: gradu is broken X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199407311120.AA13042@nfs1.digex.net> from "Nick NICHOLAS" at Jul 31, 94 09:19:23 pm Content-Length: 2089 Lines: 51 la nitcion. cusku di'e > Lojbab is going to invoke divine punishment on me for this, but it seems an > obvious oversight. la zipf. joi la r. joi la djig. joi la talen. dapma do > I think it makes all the sense of the world to make gradu: x1 is x2 units by > standard x3, where the unit measures property x4. This would make "it's 9 > volts", da dicyda'erau li so, consistent with "it's 9 grams", da grake li so. I think you are basically correct, provided that one concern is resolved: how do we say something like "the meter is the MKS unit of length"? Here "the meter" (which is hard to express in itself, but which I take to be something like "tu'a loi mitre") falls into the current x1 place of "gradu" very naturally: tu'a loi mitre cu gradu la mykysyc. loi nu clani I can't reconcile this, however, with the comment "[magnitude]" after x1 in the current gi'uste. > Yes? So there is some kind of confusion that needs straightening out. Changing "gradu"'s place structure will allow it to be used to make new units of measurement, but will eliminate the ability to talk >about< units of measurement. ni'o I went back to the original article by Scott Layson (TL3/1:70), wherein the current measurement place structures were proposed, and noted that he made a suggestion which didn't get taken up into Lojban: an x4 place for "rupnu", reflecting the date as of which the monetary unit is meaningful. Note that this is not the same as the date attached to the entire bridi: ca la socinan. le djima be pa xarju cu rupnu li cinono la merko la zepanan. simultaneous-with 93-year the price of 1 pig is-in-dollars the-number 300 by-standard named "U.S." as-of 71-year In 1993, the price of a pig was US$300 in 1971 dollars. I'm not proposing a definite place structure yet, because I don't yet have a name for this x4 place; I'm looking into what economists call the 1971-ness of a 1971 dollar. -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.