Message-Id: <m0qZlhV-00004uC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Sun, 14 Aug 1994 15:59:58 EDT
Reply-To:     jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      xruti
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1602
Lines: 40

A plea to remove another place: the x1 of xruti.


xruti  xru     x1 (agent) returns x2 to origin/earlier state x3 from x4;

The agentive return would be easily formed: xrugau

Currently, one has to use se'ixru for the agentless x1 returns to state x2,
but that's not really agentless, rather the agent is the one being returned.
So {le bitmu se'ixru le nu blabi} doesn't really mean "the wall is white
again", but rather "the wall made itself white again", or something like
that.

I think it makes sense to make it agentless. I checked in the text that
I have available, and {xruti} was mostly used in the lujvo {xrukla}, which
even makes more sense with an agentless xruti, and a couple of times it was
used (incorrectly, I suppose) as agentless. Also there were a few {se'ixru}.
I couldn't find any direct use of {xruti} with it's supposed meaning.

xru- as a prefix is also more useful as agentless. For example, we could have

xrucikna  x1 re-awakens, regains consciousness.
xrucmive  x1 re-lives, is resurrected, is alive again.
xrukalri  x1 is open again.
xrudji    x1 wants x2 to return to state x3 (by default this could mean
          x1 wants x2 back)
xrugei    x1 is happy again (about x2)
xrukakne  x1 is again capable of x2
xrupacna  x1 again expects x2 (regained hope)
xrukanro  x1 is healthy again, cured.


and many others. Any sumti that is of adjective-type will combine well with
xru- in this sense.

I think that the concept "x1 is back in state x2" is important enough, and
{se'ixru} doesn't really mean this, while {xrugau} would be exactly the same
that {xruti} is now.

Jorge