Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by nfs1.digex.net with SMTP id AA18866 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 17 Aug 1994 13:07:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199408171707.AA18866@nfs1.digex.net> Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2826; Wed, 17 Aug 94 13:09:18 EDT Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3870; Wed, 17 Aug 1994 12:54:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 12:53:29 EDT Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge Llambias Subject: Re: xruti X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Bob LeChevalier Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Wed Aug 17 13:07:54 1994 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu la lojbab cusku di'e > I would suspect that if "-gau" is causing problems with x2, you may need a new > convention that does not cause x2 patient. I guess you meant that you want a convention that _does_ make x2 the patient. I think this may cause more confusion than anything else. Since the problem is solved using {jai}, I wouldn't make an exception for just a few cases. > Either that, or change "jai" to something that can get a useful rafsi, which > will in turn probably cause some other rafsi changes. It can get a useful rafsi as it is: "jaz" (or "jax"). Of course, something like jal, jar, jam or jan would be even better, but you'd have to take it away from something else. Then we'd have: jazga'i (jai galfi) x1 changes x2 into x3 with event x4 As opposed to: gafygau (galfi gasnu) x1 changes, with event x2, x3 into x4 > Remmebering that -gau and -zu'e (which I presume also has the same problem) > are unique among gismu in being designed to cause raising, I guess one could define: gafygau: gas1 (gas2=gal1) gal2 gal3 x1 is the agent in an event that changes x2 into x3 but this would deviate from the usual way -gau works, and doesn't really offer anything better than jai. Jorge