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Date:         Sat, 24 Sep 1994 14:12:34 EDT
Reply-To:     jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
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From:         Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TECH: Transparence / Opaqueness
X-To:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
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And:
> > >             ko dunda ci plise mi
> > >             Give me 3 apples!
>
> But contrast:
>   I hereby command you to make it true that there are 3 apples that
>      I'm given
>   There are three apples such that I hereby command you to give
>      me them
>
> The transparent/opque distinction (I suggest, out of my depth) has
> to do with scope of quantification with resepect to some 'irrealis'
> element of meaning, & a command, even in the form of an imperative,
> constitutes an irrealis element. (CF. "Give me a book - any book".)

You're right, but then the definition of {ko} can't be "make this
sentence, replacing {ko} by {do}, to be true". At least in the presence
of {xe'e} the meaning of {ko} would be somewhat different.

Jorge