Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qlmfP-00005LC; Sat, 17 Sep 94 02:26 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0435; Sat, 17 Sep 94 02:24:40 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 0433; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 02:24:39 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2467; Sat, 17 Sep 1994 01:23:27 +0200 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 19:25:30 EDT Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge Llambias Subject: Re: TECH: Any old thing whatsoever (was RE: do djica loi ckafi je'i tcati) X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1278 Lines: 37 la lojbab cusku di'e > A major reason why "loi tanxe" should work in Lojban is that in Lojban, > singular plural is a marked distinction, AND that all nouns can be considered > as mass nouns. Nobody says {loi tanxe} doesn't work. What I'm saying is that it doesn't mean "any box", it means "[part of] the mass of boxes". So, I could say mi pilno loi tanxe le nu vasru lei mi cukta I use boxes to keep my books there's no problem with {loi tanxe}, it works, as a mass of boxes. > You do not, in English, typically say "I need *a* water", you say "I need > water", and leave the quantity of the mass to be determinable from context. Exactly. Just like in Lojban mi nelci loi djacu I like water (not "I like any water") Now, how do we say "I need water"? It can't be {mi nitcu loi djacu}, because that says that there is some part of the mass of water that I need, and that's not what "I need water" means. > If you need to be specific, you say something like "I need a glass of water", > or "I need a liter of water". One way to do this in Lojban, for boxes is > "mi nitcu pa selci poi tanxe" "I need one indivisible subunit of the mass > of boxes." It's the same problem. Is {pa selci} one (certain) selci, or is it any selci? Jorge