Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qmr6L-00005XC; Tue, 20 Sep 94 01:22 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7406; Tue, 20 Sep 94 01:20:52 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 7402; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 01:20:52 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4338; Tue, 20 Sep 1994 00:19:40 +0200 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 18:23:07 EDT Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge Llambias Subject: Re: Chief logician? X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1766 Lines: 62 Randall asks: > Does anyone in the > Lojban community realize that logical connectives applied to arguments > produce problems of scope (usually handled implicitly in NL's) > precisely analogous to those connected with quantification? Logical connectives are never applied to arguments in Lojban. (In the sense that all forms of logical connection are contractions of full bridi connections.) And yes, the debate on "any" was sparkled by a logical connection question: mi nitcu le tanxe a le dakli I need (the box OR the bag) means: (I need the box) OR (I need the bag) It does not mean what we usually mean in English by "I need either of the box or the bag". > Consider > > John and James love Mary or Sally > > versus > > Mary or Sally is loved by John and James > > In the second sentence, but not in the first, it is clear that John > and James love the same unspecified element of {Mary, Sally}; in the > first sentence, they may love different elements of the set. If you have two logical connectives in a Lojban sentence, I think the first one binds tighter, so la djan e la djeimyz prami la meris a la salis expands to: la djan e la djeimyz prami la meris ija la djan e la djeimyz prami la salis (John loves Mary AND James loves Mary) OR (John loves Sally AND James loves Sally) while: la meris a la salis se prami la djan e la djeimyz goes to: la meris a la salis se prami la djan ije la meris a la salis se prami la djeimyz (Mary is loved by John OR Sally is loved by John) AND (Mary is loved by James OR Sally is loved by James) This is in reverse of the meaning you give for the English sentences, but there is no ambiguity. Jorge