Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by nfs1.digex.net with SMTP id AA12277 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 7 Sep 1994 15:03:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199409071903.AA12277@nfs1.digex.net> Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6768; Wed, 07 Sep 94 14:59:40 EDT Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9394; Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:15:37 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 20:11:36 +0100 Reply-To: Veijo Vilva Sender: Lojban list From: Veijo Vilva Subject: My First Helsem Exercice X-To: Lojban list To: Bob LeChevalier Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Wed Sep 7 15:03:31 1994 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu lojbab sent to me, at the request of the author, a booklet containing Lojban poems by Michael Helsem. I'll be posting a selection of them after I have checked the language and more or less figured out the meanings. The originals have a rather distracting orthography which I don't reproduce in my 'corrected' versions - they will be more accessible this way - but I'll always append the originals and also the author's own translations. I'll use the original translations as a guide when doing the corrections but I'll also do a re-translation afterwards to express MY understanding of the Lojban version - and also sometimes due to stilistic preferences. Here is one of the poems called 'skadji' or 'Color-Desire'. le rozgu .a lo zgike be sekai The rose, or all music like it leri kamyxunre ba lunra in redness, will turn moonlike xarnu nundunra ri'a .ia stubborn winter because of, so I believe, do .e ledo darno logji you and the aloof logic of yours. .icu'u le pu me do [ku] As said by the you of past ko fi mi ca cusku fe leiva say now to me those smaji valsi noi mi ke'a soft words, which I pujeca .iecai na natfe then and now - Oh yes - do not deny na'emu'i rolei jitfycipra in spite of all the proofs against... ----- Comments: (Setting aside the concrete nature of Lojban and accepting the unmarked figurative usage) le rozgu ba nundunra the rose will be an event-of-winter, the rose will turn winter Took me a while to find an English expression for this. I rather like this - and stating that all rosa music turns into winter... I vacillated here between 'a' and 'all' but finally chose 'all'. The original was missing the {be}. kamyxunre replaced the obviously outdated rafsi {kaz} lunra xarnu something moving with the inevitability of the Moon in its orbit .icu'u the original had {.isecu'u} le pu me do [ku] the {me} was missing, {ku} is elidable na(bo) natfe removed the unparseable {bo} na'e mu'i replaced the erroneous {na} with {na'e} The second verse is an example of a sentence where {fi/fe} seem to be almost unavoidable. I might, however, consider caku tecu'u mi ko cusku leiva ... [ko fi mi ca cusku fe leiva...] as an alternative to avoid the mental juggling which distracts the reader from the flow of the poem. The structure {cu'u le pu me do ko cusku...} is quite clever and nicely ambiguous. The past you and the imperative you are speaking/ougth to speak simultaneously in a way very difficult to convey satisfactorily in English. veion ------------ The original by Michael Helsem from {le pamai jbopemci cukta ci'a la maiky'elsym} le ROZgu .A lo ZGIke SEkai The rose,or a music with LEri KAzyXUNre ba LUNra its redness, will be lunar- XARnu nunDUNra RI'a .IA stubborn in its winterhood, because of (I believe) DO .e LEdo DARno LOGji you & your distant logic. .IseCU'u LE pu DO ku As said by you before, KO fi MI ca CUSku fe LEIva again say to me those SMAji VALsi NOI mi KE'a soft words that i puJEca .IEcai NAbo NATfe then & now--yes!--don't deny naMU'i ROlei JITfyCIPra in spite of all the disproofs... ---------------------------