Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qngJu-00005XC; Thu, 22 Sep 94 08:03 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2727; Thu, 22 Sep 94 08:02:18 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 2725; Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:02:18 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3782; Thu, 22 Sep 1994 07:01:04 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 00:34:45 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: any? (response to Desmond) X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1217 Lines: 29 John Cowan answering Desmond: JB>> That also makes sense to me. I would be interested in the simplest lojban JB>> rendering of JB>> (1) A man is eating an icecream. The man is happy. JB>> (2) Two people are in a room. The man is happy. JB>> (3) A man may eat an icecream. A man may be happy. JB>> (4) A man may eat an icecream. That would make him happy. JB> JB>Without worrying about Lojban vocabulary, it comes out: JB> JB>1) le -man -eats loi -icecream .i le -man -happy. JB>2) re lo -persons -in le -room .i le -man -happy. JB>3) lo -man (modal) -eat loi -icecream .i lo -man (modal) -happy. JB>4) lo -man (modal) -eat loi -icecream gi'e -happy. (2) is the problem sentence. We have defined and found useful this type of wording, and indeed "PA + brivla" expands to "PA lo brivla". But by John and Colin's argument on another branch of theis thread, it is quite likely that this should be 2) le re -persons -in le -room .i le -man -happy. because most interpetations of the English (2) would presume that the man is being selected out of the two people in the room, and if you know enough to know that at leats one of the two is a (specific) man, then you have too much in mind to use "lo". lojbab