Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0r28OJ-00005YC; Tue, 1 Nov 94 03:52 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2342; Tue, 01 Nov 94 03:52:14 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 2336; Tue, 1 Nov 1994 03:52:13 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7578; Tue, 1 Nov 1994 02:47:58 +0100 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 12:01:07 -0700 Reply-To: Chris Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: any, opaque, transparent, xe'e... X-To: lojban@cuvmb.bitnet To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1116 Lines: 27 >> I think a post of mine got lost somehow, which I'll quote from: > >No, it wasn't lost. Maybe my answer to it was lost. The list server mysteriously dumped me off for a few days right about then -- that must be why I didn't see it. >In my answer I asked you for examples. I can't think of common examples >not involving {nitcu}, {djica} and the four or five like them, where >it would be more convenient to consider {lo broda} opaque. I went through looking for words in that category and I found: cpedu, cuxna, denpa?, facki, nitcu, djica, claxu, friti, drata? but I didn't go through the whole gi'uste, so there are probably more. Also some tenses can make other gismu have opaque places: ka'e: *mi mutce xagji .oi .i mi ka'e citka xe'e lo xirma. di'i: *mi di'i citka xe'e lo xirma -roi: *mi ciroi citka xe'e lo xirma It's interesting that in all these examples it's the x2 place that causes the problem. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Bogart cbogart@quetzal.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~