Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by nfs1.digex.net with SMTP id AA17552 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:25:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199410071925.AA17552@nfs1.digex.net> Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4546; Fri, 07 Oct 94 15:26:40 EDT Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4418; Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:44:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:33:27 BST Reply-To: i.alexander.bra0125@oasis.icl.co.uk Sender: Lojban list From: i.alexander.bra0125@oasis.icl.co.uk Subject: Re: A couple of questions X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Bob LeChevalier Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri Oct 7 15:25:31 1994 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu cu'u la lojbab. > 1. Therefore the statement "Elves have pointed ears" is false since > there is no such thing as an elf. Likewise definitional statements > "Elves are humanoid" is also false even if definitional. How can you > describe the properties of a hypothetical but non-existent object if any > statement about such an object is false. These are either universals ro crida cu se kerlo lo se kojna ro crida cu remna simsa or are about Jorge's Platonic ideals lo'e crida cu se kerlo lo se kojna lo'e crida cu simsa lo'e remna neither of which necessarily imply existence .ia. And if you really want to say that some-but-not-necessarily-all elves have pointy ears, then you have to allow that such things as elves exist, if only for the purposes of the discussion. su'o [da'i] crida cu se kojna se kerlo Hypothetical objects exist ***by hypothesis*** in the universe of discourse. If you start a conversation about elves without first establishing the hypothetical context, then you have to expect a retort complaining that there's no such thing. But if you've prepared the ground properly, you can continue the discussion in the knowledge that existence may be assumed _in that context_. mu'o mi'e .i,n.