From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Sat Nov 5 10:52:29 1994 Message-Id: <199411051552.AA24660@nfs1.digex.net> Date: Sat Nov 5 10:52:29 1994 From: "Robert J. Chassell" Subject: Re: context in Lojban In-Reply-To: <9411042345.AA15879@albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu> (jorge@phyast.pitt.edu) Status: RO So as not to confuse anyone with jargon like `+specific' and `-specific', remember, if the context is that there are a real and a non-real box in front of us, and our contextual range is constrained to those boxes, then .i mi nitcu lo tanxe is *specific* as to which box, and .i mi nitcu le tanxe is *not* specific as to which box. This is basic to Lojban. In this case, a reasonable English translation by either speaker or listener for .i mi nitcu lo tanxe is I need the box. whereas a reasonable English translation *by the listener* for .i mi nitcu le tanxe is I need a box. (Of course the *speaker* could use *the* in both translations, since the speaker has knowledge not available to the listener until the listener is told, but Lojban is *not* a speaker-based language, and never has been; this is yet another non-English side-effect of being a dialog-based language.) {le} is specific *in the mind of* the speaker. It is not necessarily specific to the listener, until the speaker explains more to the speaker. Hence, using English language inspired jargon such as `+specific' is easily misleading. {le} is *not necessaily* +specific until *both* speaker and listener have whatever is designated in mind jointly. ucleaar@ucl.ac.uk asked: The question is whether LO can be specific: Is "lo gerku cu xunre" *necessarily* true if there exists at least one red dog? The answer is no, not if the context is the room I am in right now. The answer is yes, if the context is the whole universe and true dogs include those that look reddish to me when looking through rosy-colored glasses. Put another way, {le broda} in itself conveys less information to a listener than {lo broda}, which in turn conveys less information than {lo'i broda}. In English, there is also a sequence, but the contents of information are different: in itself conveys less information to either listener or speaker than , which in turn conveys less information than . Robert J. Chassell bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu 25 Rattlesnake Mountain Road bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA (413) 298-4725 Robert J. Chassell bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu 25 Rattlesnake Mountain Road bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA (413) 298-4725