Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rCZnY-00007FC; Tue, 29 Nov 94 23:09 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8208; Tue, 29 Nov 94 23:09:29 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8206; Tue, 29 Nov 1994 23:09:27 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6448; Tue, 29 Nov 1994 22:06:11 +0100 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 08:58:18 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: solutions to sumti opacity X-To: ucleaar@ucl.ac.uk X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 765 Lines: 15 gismu place structures are not "baselined", in that the standard for changing them in iondividual cases it not nearly as high as, say, for adding or deleting a gismu. It is wholesale changes that are not going to be considered. UC>Suppose I want to describe things from your point of view and say UC>"you were going to a shop, but when you got there you found it had UC>never existed". I can't translate this by "do klama lo zarci". It is indeed, unless you want to eliminate the future tense. Since we are not omniscient, especially about the future, any statement asbout the future is either "subjective" or "intentional". The narrator may not know what is going to happen either, especially in serials where the sequel has not yet been written %^). lojbab