Received: from cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu by nfs1.digex.net with SMTP id AA23015 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 9 Dec 1994 04:30:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199412090930.AA23015@nfs1.digex.net> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 2796; Fri, 09 Dec 94 04:30:00 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 1540; Fri, 09 Dec 94 04:29:59 EDT Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 04:29:58 -0400 From: BITNET list server at CUVMB (1.8a) Subject: LOJBAN: error report from CS.YALE.EDU To: LOJBAB@access.digex.net X-Lsv-Listid: None Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Fri Dec 9 04:30:26 1994 X-From-Space-Address: LISTSERV@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU The enclosed mail file, found in the LOJBAN reader and shown under the spoolid 7624 in the console log, has been identified as a possible delivery error notice for the following reason: mail origin is listed in "Filter=" list header keyword (or its default value for LOJBAN). ------------------------- Message in error (67 lines) ------------------------- Received: from YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 1464; Fri, 09 Dec 94 04:19:22 EDT Received: from YALEVM (NJE origin SMTP@YALEVM) by YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6745; Fri, 9 Dec 1994 04:19:08 -0500 Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 09 Dec 94 04:19:06 EST Received: from YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu (yalevm.ycc.yale.edu) by eli.CS.YALE.EDU; Fri, 9 Dec 1994 04:19:31 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 04:19:31 -0500 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Full-Name: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: <@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Subject: Returned mail: Remote protocol error Message-Id: <199412090919.AA14649@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- While talking to SYSTEMSZ-GW.CS.YALE.EDU: >>> MAIL From:<@CS.YALE.EDU,@yalevm.ycc.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> <<< 554 database 'l' has not been defined >>> QUIT <<< 554 database 'l' has not been defined 554 'rauch@nebula... Remote protocol error ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- Bounced, cannot deliver: 'rauch@nebula Sent successfully: rauch-erik ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu (yalevm.ycc.yale.edu) by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 9 Dec 1994 04:19:31 -0500 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.CIS.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8086; Fri, 09 Dec 94 04:19:01 EST Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 0259; Fri, 09 Dec 94 03:53:00 EDT Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 12:54:24 EST Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge Llambias Subject: Re: plural X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch > >English forces us to distinguish between singular and plural. > > > >Lojban forces us to distinguish between individual and group. > > The point is that in Lojban it is optional to make such a distinction. > You CAN use the "individual" article on a "group", and you CAN use the > "group" word on an individual. How do you say "the men carried the piano" in Lojban WITHOUT making the individual/group distinction? > The fact that you see no reason to do so > is a product of your thinking, not of the inherent nature of the > language. I don't see how can you avoid using one or the other. For a given broda, {le broda} refers to individual broda while {lei broda} refers to a group/mass of them. You could use {lei broda} for a single broda, but if there are more than one you have to be explicit whether you are referring to them individually or as a group. Jorge