Return-Path: <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi  with smtp
	(Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rLMqy-00007MC; Sat, 24 Dec 94 05:09 EET
Received: from fiport.funet.fi (fiport.funet.fi [128.214.109.150]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id FAA28124 for <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>; Sat, 24 Dec 1994 05:09:07 +0200
Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN)
 by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494)
 id <01HL0900TP6O0003B0@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Sat, 24 Dec 1994 03:08:14 +0200 (EET)
Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN)
 by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6422; Sat,
 24 Dec 1994 04:05:51 +0100
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 19:07:14 -0800
From: Gerald Koenig <jlk@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: quantified terse tense
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
To: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Reply-to: Gerald Koenig <jlk@NETCOM.COM>
Message-id: <01HL0900VL020003B0@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>
X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-To:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2383
Lines: 72

Reading through the paper on the finely structured lojban space and
tense system today it hit me that it is based on  two mathematical
reference frames: A spherical coordinate system for space and a one
dimensional line for time. Vectors of three fuzzy lengths but definite
directions emanated from the origins. To solve the "ago" wordiness
problem it is necessary to have vectors of precise lengths. Furthermore
the resulting expressions need to be concise enough to equal natural
language.I found these lurking in the deep structure of the grammar. It
was news to me and in case it is to others here is how it can work:
(All examples are from the tense paper. Hope you love dogs. Thanks
again to John Cowan who gave us the parser and the tense papers without
which we are completely in the dark.)


(2.3) le nanmu zu'a vi batci le gerku
The man([left] [short distance] bites the dog

({le nanmu KU} {<[zu'a vi] batci> <[le gerku KU] VAU>})
Above is the parser output.

New usage:
le nanmu zu'a vei ci mitre cu batci le gerku
The man [left] [three meters] bites the dog.


({<le nanmu KU> <zu'a [(vei {ci BOI} VE'O) mitre KU]>} cu {batci <[le
gerku KU] VAU>})


(4.1) le nanmu pu batci le gerku
The man [past] bites the dog.
({le nanmu KU} {<pu batci> <[le gerku KU] VAU>})


New quantifed example:
le nanmu pu vei ze nanca cu batci le gerku
The man [past] (mex paran) 7 years [past] bites the dog.


({<le nanmu KU> <pu [(vei {ze BOI} VE'O) nanca KU]>} cu {batci <[le gerku
KU] VAU>})


(4.7).   le nanmu puzu vu batci le gerku
The man [past] [long time] [long space] bites the dog.

({le nanmu KU} {<[(pu zu) vu] batci> <[le gerku KU] VAU>})

Below is an example with puzu, and vu quantified.

le nanmu pu vei reno nanca vu vei panonono minli cu batci le gerku
The man [past] [20 years ago] [distance] [1000 miles] bites the dog.


({<[le nanmu KU] [pu ({vei <[re no] BOI> VE'O} nanca KU)]> <vu [(vei {<pa
no no no> BOI} VE'O) minli KU]>} cu {batci <[le gerku KU] VAU>})

And now, Chris's request for short expression for "7 years ago":

pu vei ze nanca mi cu cusku
7 years ago ....

({<pu [(vei {ze BOI} VE'O) nanca KU]> mi} cu {cusku VAU})

It has a word count of 4.  The vei makes the expression possible.
It seems to be a general method to quantify the length of the space and
time vectors. Apparantly we could talk like surveyors with it.

The best of holidays to all,

djer