From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Wed Dec 14 20:45:35 1994 Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by nfs2.digex.net with SMTP id AA10829 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 14 Dec 1994 20:45:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199412150145.AA10829@nfs2.digex.net> Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5039; Wed, 14 Dec 94 20:40:09 EST Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0029; Wed, 14 Dec 1994 19:27:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 11:38:13 -0700 Reply-To: Chris Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris Bogart Subject: Lojban and jello-wrestling To: Bob LeChevalier Status: RO It's beginning to appear to me that there is insufficient consensus on Lojban's fundamental logical underpinnings -- which is worrisome considering this is supposed to be the foundation of Lojban. When I've gotten into discussions about what "lo" should mean or whatever, I feel like I'm jello-wrestling, because there's no firm ground to stand on. It appears right now that the only justifications people can make for their arguments are memories of old conversations and assumptions they've held for a long time. I've been trying to get a sense of those things by reading between the lines in the textbook, draft reference grammar papers, etc., but it's kind of like detective work. At some point there will have to be a pretty formal description of how Lojban does and doesn't map to pred calc, what rules can be used to convert one bridi to another, what expands to what, etc. I guess that's what the logic paper in the reference grammar will do? I'm not convinced everyone here is building on the same set of assumptions when discussing what quantification, massification, veridiciality, etc. really mean in relation to the rest of the language. I do think that a few of the key players do have a clear picture of what's going on. I think I'll back off for now on the technical discussions, practice my jboselsku with Jorge and Goran, and let more seasoned Lojbanists battle these things out, and wait for the draft logic paper before I get involved again. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Bogart cbogart@quetzal.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~