Message-Id: <m0rEaES-00007XC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Fri, 2 Dec 1994 17:56:09 EST
Reply-To:     jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: cmavo hit-list
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 2239
Lines: 57

And:
> > {li'i} and {si'o} I'm still not sure how to use. And has been using si'o
> > lately for the opacity examples, but I would use du'u for all of those,
> > and I don't see what si'o adds to it.
>
> "Siho" is something existing inside a mind - a concept. "Duhu" is
> (I think) a proposition.

But when to use one or the other? Does one tell anything more or less
than the other?

> "Lihi" I don't know how to define, or why
> it was felt to be necessary, but the English gloss gives one an
> intuitive indication of what it means. I used it in a poem I haven't
> posted: "le lihi tohermanku manci" - 'the experience of undark wonder".

I suppose it also needs a lambda variable like {ka}, otherwise you
don't know whether the experience was to feel wonder or to be wondered
about.

And what are you waiting for, to post the poem?


> >         ze'o zo'a zo'i  (location tenses)
> >
> > They seem to be very similar to to'o, te'e, fa'a. The tense paper
> > says something about ones relating to the speaker and the others not,
> > but why then isn't this a problem with other FAhAs, which could also
> > relate to the speaker or to some other point?
>
> I think that what may be special about these is that they define
> a direction with respect to the boundary of X of something that is
> within X. If I'm right, I think this is useful.

There is already a word for inside, ne'i, which you can combine with
to'o and fa'a to get this effect, I think.


> >         dau fei gai jau rei vai (hex digits)
> > What a waste of top quality cmavo...
> Tragic. Also consider "su" - erase-to-start-of-discourse. Does the
> frequency with which we'll wish to do that justify using up a lovely
> CV cmavo? NO WAY! There are other cases where cmavo space has been
> squandered with equal profligacy.

The justification for su is the pattern si sa su, that appears often
in the language.

> Also, the foha & koha series could have been shrunk and expanded at
> the same time by using a singlecmavo plus a number. E.g. supa sure
> sici (where SU is put to a better use as this cmavo).

Well, I don't really like using numbers like that, and even though
foha & koha are probably too many, they are so regular that it doesn't
really hurt much.

Jorge