Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rDS0M-00007FC; Fri, 2 Dec 94 09:02 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9424; Fri, 02 Dec 94 09:02:18 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 9422; Fri, 2 Dec 1994 09:02:12 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3392; Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:57:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 17:27:09 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: {loi} electron X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199412011435.AA10403@nfs1.digex.net> from "bob@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU" at Dec 1, 94 09:21:02 am Content-Length: 1397 Lines: 28 la bab. cusku di'e > However, we also count electrons; for example, on one oil droplet, > Millikan detected three electrons. This suggests, which is contrary > to the sumti paper: > > la milikan pu ganse ci loi dikca > > What should I say, to talk about three electrongs, that are not part > of a team, are not typical or stereotypical, are not merely what I am > designating, are `for real', but also are truly all identical; maybe > all the same single entity, merely moving for fractions of a Planck > time from one spot/velocity to another? I think you want just "ci lo dicka'u" (dikca kantu) here, where we need a specific word for "electron". "lo dikca" is what Millikan detected, but also (and more centrally) what Franklin detected: "a quantity of electrical charge" (not necessarily a quantum of it). The word "kantu" may or may not embed the Feynman view of there being only one electron. Lojban's logic is classical logic for the most part, and doesn't allow for "three things which are all identical". If they are truly identical, they are not "three things", but one thing. (This is why some people don't believe that "du" belongs in Lojban, or exact-number quantifiers either, which are really part of the same notion. "No entity without identity.") -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.