From: Logical Language Group Message-Id: <199412052122.AA12785@access2.digex.net> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on Lojban gadri Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 16:22:10 -0500 (EST) Cc: lojbab@access.digex.net (Logical Language Group) In-Reply-To: <199411292003.AA17575@nfs1.digex.net> from "bob@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU" at Nov 28, 94 09:10:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1936 Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Mon Dec 5 16:26:37 1994 X-From-Space-Address: lojbab la bab. cusku di'e > Jorge explained his understanding of the Lojban gadri of selma'o LE. > It looks to me that much of what he says is at variance with how > Lojban has been defined hitherto. > > > lo broda At least one of all things that broda. > > Yes, but bear in mind that the {su'o} and {ro} are merely *default* > values. Unless explicitly specified as {su'o} and {ro}, an unadorned > {lo broda} utterance may (but usually does not) imply some other value > for them. No, I think not. If the quantifiers are omitted (or either of them), the default values take over. This is not one of those places where "unspecified means 'glork it from context'"; unspecified quantifiers have the same meaning as if specified to be "su'o" and "ro". > It doesn't say which one(s), but the question > is pertinent and has an answer in principle > (which doesn't mean that the speaker has to know it). > > It is only in this recent thread that anyone has suggested that `which > one' is of any relevance to {le} or {lo} other than as a help in > making translations into English. (Russian is more like Lojban since > it lacks an equivalent of `a' and `the'.) This, plus what follows (elided here) is equivalent to saying that Lojban has no markers for +definite and -definite: there is no telling whether "le mlatu" means "the cat" (+specific +definite) or "a certain cat" (+specific -definite). You have a habit of using "specific" to mean both +specific and +definite, with resulting mental confusion: I urge you to re-read my definitions. In brief: +specific: speaker's intention gives the referent -specific: referent is found by quantifying over the universe +definite: listener can identify the referent -definite: listener cannot identify the referent -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.