Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rI9hq-00007DC; Thu, 15 Dec 94 08:30 EET Received: from fiport.funet.fi (fiport.funet.fi [128.214.109.150]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA12085 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 1994 08:30:24 +0200 Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI (MAILER@FINHUTC) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-7 #2494) id <01HKNVEC6J5C0006X0@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Thu, 15 Dec 1994 06:29:25 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3653; Thu, 15 Dec 1994 08:30:35 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4272; Thu, 15 Dec 1994 07:27:16 +0100 Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 01:28:59 -0500 From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: plural Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: Logical Language Group Message-id: <01HKNVECTZ1I0006X0@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1408 Lines: 31 >I really don't see what's the benefit of this. What's the advantage of >letting --More-- >{lei ci prenu cu bevri le botpi} mean that only one of the three carried it? > >A different thing is to say that for the three of them to carry it, it is >enough that the bottle be in the hands of only one, but somehow they were >acting as a group. Then it would be the whole mass doing the carrying. The baseball team of 9 men scored a run. lei so prenu [scored a run]. But only one person crossed home plate, and at most 4 players were involved in getting that person to score the run (barring oddities like sacrifice flies and the like). So piro would be VERY misleading at the least. Likewise ci cinta preja prenu cu klama le mi zdani .i lei ci prenu cu cinta preja zukte fi lenu lemi zdani cu cinta se gacri Ah, but unbeknownst to me, only 1 person did the painting while the other 2 held the ladder. piro lei prenu did not spread paint. pisu'o lei prenu did. When you drink "lei" water, your in-mind mass is NOT that portion of the molecules that you acytually consimed, but the contents of the glass. The fact that we know from physics that a few molecules evaporated and did not enter my gullet does not change what the in-mind mass is. You are trying to define the in-mind mass as simply that which makes it true if the quantifier is piro - a most circular definition in my estimation. lojbab