Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rEbcA-00007GC; Mon, 5 Dec 94 13:29 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0199; Mon, 05 Dec 94 13:30:08 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 0196; Mon, 5 Dec 1994 13:30:08 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9081; Mon, 5 Dec 1994 12:26:51 +0100 Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 06:29:14 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: cmavo hit list - lojbab responds X-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1465 Lines: 34 >la goran cusku di'e > >> A question about sumti valsi and velski... if you have an expression >> like {le la goran. za'o melbi cidju}, what is its first letter? >> Is this gy., zy., my. or cy.? I'd say the last one, cy., but I'm >> not sure. > >I'd also use cy in that case. So would I, but only after an intermediate "le cidju" (cidja???) at the first back reference. I would say that anytime you have a complex sumti, it is best to use a short descriptive back-reference first before using a fully-abbreviated anaphora like a lerfu. The only excpetion is when you explicitly assign the anaphora with "goi". >> Second, if you have {le tavla be la goran.}, what is {ri}? Is it >> {le tavla be la goran.} or just {la goran.}? I believe the rule is >> the last completed sumti. They both finish off at the same time. >> Or does the former finish later than latter? It is {le tavla be >> la goran. ku be'o ku}... Just some food for thought... >I'd say {ri} is {la goran}. I don't know how the rule is worded, but >I always understood it was the last complete sumti, so, of all those >that have been completed, the one that started last. ri is la goran rixire (or likely "ra"), is the full sumti The only place where you have to be careful with this rule is when you are back-referencing from within the sumti itself. "le tavla be la goran bei ri" refers to some sumti previous toi the whole phrase since the reference is within a not-completed sumti. lojbab