Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rG1IC-00007DC; Fri, 9 Dec 94 11:07 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8952; Fri, 09 Dec 94 11:07:17 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8944; Fri, 9 Dec 1994 11:07:13 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4403; Fri, 9 Dec 1994 10:03:51 +0100 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 03:22:10 +0000 Reply-To: ucleaar Sender: Lojban list From: ucleaar Subject: 'metalogical descriptions' X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 846 Lines: 21 How do we say things like the predicate Gerku has 2 places [NB NOT the word 'gerku'] the x1 place of Gerku is a category members of x1 places are typically agents That is, we speak sort of metalinguistically, but not about linguistic objects (i.e. words) but about logical objects (individuals, categories, predicates, quantifiers, etc.) I can imagine this requiring horribly cumbersome paraphrases. On the other hand I can imagine it handled quite nicely by an analogue of "zo", meaning "the logical object" rather than "the word". Say this was "xahu". Then my examples could be rendered: xahu gerku has 2 places xahu [se se gerku] cu klesi ["se se" for want of another way to get at the x1 category] But I mainly seek to learn how to do these things, not to make any new cmavo proposal. ---- And