Message-Id: <m0rIL2w-00007DC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Thu, 15 Dec 1994 18:21:07 +0000
Reply-To:     ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Q-kau
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
In-Reply-To:  (Your message of Wed, 14 Dec 94 18:23:27 PST.)
Content-Length: 2449
Lines: 63

This is a reply to Djer concerning only interrogative pronouns in
English.

Djer:
> And quoted djer:
> >> appropriate usage for kau. "Who went to the store?" would be an
> >> interrogative use of who, but here I see it as a personal relative
> >> pronoun.
> And said:
> >This may not be relevant, but I wouldn't call it a relative pronoun;
> >I would call it an interrogative pronoun. In "*I* know what YOU know"
> >"what" is a relative pronoun, while in "I KNOW what you KNOW" "what"
> >is an interrogative pronoun. I can muster arguments to support this,
> >but I won't unless you judge it germane.
> djer says:
> I would have to argue with this. I KNOW what you KNOW goes to I know
> that which you know; to me.

Can you see the difference between the two syntactically and
intonationally different versions? Compare "I wonder what you know".

>     I found this example in ESSENTIAL ENGLISH GRAMMAR.
>     "I admire a man * who has convictions.*
>     We can start * whenever you're ready.*
>     In analyzing such sentences it is customary to say that *who has
>     convictions* and *whenever you're ready* are subordinate clauses; and
>     that *I admire a man* and We can start* are main clauses. "
>     There is an alternative interpretation where the whole sentence is
>     the main clause."
>     But no ? is used.

These are relative pronouns. Interrogative pronouns never end in -ever,
as you can test by using one as complement of "wonder". And interrog
pronouns don't modify nouns.

>     Another source:  Harper's English Grammar
>   "  Who, as both interrogative and relative, refers to persons only.
>     Note how the use of the relative (who) serves the double purpose of
>     connective and relating agent.. Thus you say *We met a man who
>     directed us*."

Right. So what?

>     I take this to mean that they are not questions.

Not all interrogative pronouns are used to ask questions. They have
two functions: the 'direct', question-asking, and the indirect, which
is the one we've been examining.

>     However things may change as we cross the Atlantic.

Not to my knowledge.

> You seem to see implicit or
>     explicit questions embedded in these constructions that I am not
>     aware of.  I cannot find any unquoted who clauses which are implied
>     questions.

No. I am not seeing implicit or explicit questions. I am seeing a certain
type of pronoun, standardly called "interrogative pronouns".

---
And