Message-Id: <m0rEaED-00007KC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Fri, 2 Dec 1994 01:29:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject:      Re: Some thoughts on Lojban gadri
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 2180
Lines: 37

LL>What remains doubtful in my mind is the extent to which component
LL>properties can be attributed to various portions of the mass which are not
LL>grouped componentwise.  On a straightforward reading, the number of legs
LL>that "pisu'o loi ractu" has can be anything from zero to 4 * N, where there
LL>are N rabbits in the universe, since "loi" is -specific and simply asserts
LL>that
LL>>some< portion of the rabbity-blob has a given number of legs.  Maybe
LL>there is really no property inheritance from parts to wholes at all, and
LL>--More--
LL>the belief that there was came from the insufficiently appreciated
LL>non-specificness of "loi".

I think property inheritance works the otther way - from whole to part - in
masses.  The smallest possible component of loi djacu is that which
exhibits all relevant properties of water.  The question of relevance is
of course context dependent - the smallest component of loi du be mi that can
 hold a pencil is a finger.  The smallest that can talk is my respiratory system
etc.  In context, either of these can represent Mr. Me.  For arbitrary
instances of Mr. Rabbit, I would normally presume that such smallest components
have 4 legs and 2 ears, unless Mr. Rabbit is in my stew %^).

LL>But if so, then the quantifier "piro" proposed by Jorge for "lei" won't
LL>work in the way we expect.  "lei re prenu", viz. "la alis. joi la djordj."
LL>has four legs, and the notion that if Alice is small and George is big,
LL>then the mass is both small and big, breaks down.  Alice-joi-George would
LL>have to be compared to other masses-of-two-persons, not to individual
LL>properties of individual persons.

I thought I was the one that proposed this - a long time ago.  The archetype
of lei is the two men carrying a log (together) across the field, in which
case you WANT the default quantifier to be the entire mass rather than a
portion.  On the other hand, I gues the "Relevant portion for context" could
suffice here too - the smallest relevant portion just happens to be "all".
But this seems to be stretching things.  I have no problem with "lei re remna"
having 4 legs as a default for most remna pairs that I know.

lojbab