Return-Path: Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rJpKi-00007DC; Mon, 19 Dec 94 23:09 EET Received: from fiport.funet.fi (fiport.funet.fi [128.214.109.150]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA01259 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 1994 23:09:28 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494) id <01HKUB9NXWRK000C2Z@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Mon, 19 Dec 1994 21:08:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1537; Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:06:11 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 16:06:04 -0500 From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: cmavo hit list - lojbab responds In-reply-to: <199412060824.AA07279@access1.digex.net> from "Logical Language Group" at Dec 6, 94 03:24:57 am Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: Logical Language Group Message-id: <01HKUB9OPKAA000C2Z@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: Lojban List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1362 Lines: 34 la lojbab. pupu cusku di'e > >> are back-referencing from within the sumti itself. "le tavla be la goran > >> bei ri" refers to some sumti previous toi the whole phrase since the > >> reference is within a not-completed sumti. la xorxes. pu cusku di'e > >I would have said in that case {ri} is still {la goran}, since that > >is the last complete sumti. I do agree that you can't get to {le tavla} > >with ra, because it is not complete. > > > >How about in {le nu tavla la goran ri}? Again the {le nu..} is not complete, > >so {ri} can't be {la goran}? I think this rule is too complicated, why not > >let it be just the last complete one? la lojbab. cusku di'e > I'll let Cowan rule on this. It has been discussed previously, I am sure, > and I will agree with whatever was said before. I could accept your > understanding if it is consistent with history. Based on his reading of history, (i.e. the draft textbook), Cowan rules that Jorge is right in both his examples. If "ri" is embedded within some sumti, it cannot refer to the embedding sumti. It can, however, refer to other sumti embedded in the same embedding sumti. If "ri" is a raisin in a cake, it can refer to another raisin in the same cake, but not to the cake. -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.