Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by nfs2.digex.net with SMTP id AA23191 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:16:25 -0500 Message-Id: <199501190316.AA23191@nfs2.digex.net> Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8870; Wed, 18 Jan 95 22:18:14 EST Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4668; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:15:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 04:02:17 MET Reply-To: Goran Topic Sender: Lojban list From: Goran Topic Subject: Re: ago (LONG and la'a incorrect :)) X-To: Lojban Listserv To: Bob LeChevalier Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Wed Jan 18 22:16:31 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu coi doi xorxes. > i mi djica le nu la lojban mutce zmadu se pilno .i .ie.a'o.au ly. co'a mutce zmadu se pilno > > .i lu da dunda lei da re fepni sera'a de li'u ba'e je'a tcegliklu > > i ie go'i i ku'i cafne fa le nu se pilno bau na'ebo la giban va'o > le samymu'e i pe'i binxo lo samymu'eklu selsku i le lojbo selmriste > cu pagbu le samymu'e pe'ipei? .i pe'i .iku'i drata falo jboklu lo sampliklu vau pe'ipei .i le bi'unai selsku na pe'i ckini loi skami .i .uaro'e ma krasi ra ...... > On the question of "ago"/"from now"/"away": > > > Yes. But I don't think the present is not useful. Especially the > > spatial equivalent, VI series. Don't tell me you claim never to need > > something like {ko'a kelci va le ckule}? > > That would be {ko'a kelci ki le ckule vaku} or simply {ko'a va kelci > ki le ckule} or even {ko'a va kelci to'o le ckule}. Sorry, but I can't parse 1st and 2nd. 3rd is 'They play school', according to cmavo list... I don't think that carries the intention ('They are playing somewhere around the school'). What does {ki } mean, anyway? I have never encountered such a construction, and I couldn't find anything about it in tense paper. > The selmahos VA and ZI represent magnitudes, and their natural complements > are magnitude specifiers. I don't see why they should do double duty for > something that can be better said with members of PU and FAhA. There are two things to expressing this concept: offset and distance. Distance is inherent in the VA/ZA class word itself: near, medium, far. The offset is where the sumti comes in. The problem is, VA/ZA is much more specific in the offset part than distance part. If sumti after VA/ZA were to specify distance, there would be two almost redundant words in the language. (What would be the difference between {vi le ckule} and {vu le ckule} except maybe the subjective estimation of the distance, which can be said in other more conventional ways?) There is no way now to express the distance other than vaguely, in i/a/o cate- gories(sp?). {xe'i}, as described, does not express the offset at all, depending on it being already expressed in some of the other construc- tions, but gives complete mastery over specifying the distance. > Another thing is that {vi} is used a lot instead of {bu'u} to mean "at" > or "in" (at least I have used it like that), and I think that's wrong, too. Yes it is. But: 'misused' does NOT (IMHO) necessitate 'not useful'. pe'ipei? > I think that the best thing is to replace {xe'i} with {za} or {va} in > your examples. The meddling would be only with the theory, because > these words have seen very little actual use as sumti tcita. Don't know. Maybe. I stated my arguments. .i doi drata do jinvi ma > > ta'o is there a gismu for distance, like equivalent for {temci}, or is > > it necessarily {nilda'o} or {da bi'i de mitre di}-like expressions? > > How about {tersei}? Don't think so... .i lo jupku'a lo sipku'a sepli lo bitmu .enai lo mitre be li pire co'o mi'e. goran. -- Learn languages! The more langs you know, the more incomprehensible you can get e'udoCILreleiBANgu.izo'ozo'onairoBANguteDJUnobedocubanRI'a.ailekadonaka'eSELjmi