Return-Path: Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rWGcn-00007TC; Mon, 23 Jan 95 06:43 EET Received: from fiport.funet.fi (fiport.funet.fi [128.214.109.150]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA02015 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 06:43:32 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494) id <01HM68WZ98E8000J2R@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 04:39:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2791; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 05:40:10 +0100 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 23:42:25 -0500 From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: whiskey lovers Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: Logical Language Group Message-id: <01HM68WZRC5I000J2R@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: ucleaar@ucl.ac.uk X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 721 Lines: 17 >X1 of ka is the property, x2 of ka is the possessor. To get a property >without a possessor, you need ziho in x2 of ka. And then I wouldn't >understand it. As of the July 94 abstraction paper and all my understandings, "ka" has never had more than one place. ckaji has 2 places, but they are the reverse - x1 is a thing having a charcateristic, and x2 is that characteristic. You can understand "Beauty" is the abstract (ka melbi) without knowing to what specific "possessor" that abstract is being applied - indeed Beauty is supposed to be indepednent of the things that are beautiful. LIkewise "Faith, Hope, Chaarity. WE have no trouble understanding these without case studies. Why not Whiskeyfondnesss? lojbab