Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 23:39:49 +0000
From: ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: replies re. ka & mamta be ma
In-reply-to: (Your message of Fri, 27 Jan 95 19:18:30 MST.)
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
To: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Reply-to: ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
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Chris:
> >> Perhaps adding "ca'e" would help: does "ko klama" mean "ca'e mi minde lenu
> >> do klama"?
> >{cahe} = "I define"? I don't understand. I suspect you might be seeking
> >a rendition of "hereby", though I don't see how this might relate to
> >{cahe}.
> I believe you are mistaken about the meaning of "ca'e".  It's glossed as "I
> define", but the reference grammar describes it as a particle which creates
> a performative.  Isn't that exactly what "hereby" does?

I'm rather baffled about what the link between "I define" and creating
a performative can be. Whatever the explanation is, I agree that "hereby"
is used to flag, if not to create, performatives.

> >Anyway, if it is "hereby" you're after, then I agree it's almost
> >a solution, as follows:
> >   dei minde le nu do klama
> >or
> >  dei nu mi minde le nu do klama
> >I say "almost a solution", because technically the utterances are
> >assertions, subject to truth-conditions rather than satisfaction-
> >conditions.
> I'm not sure what ca'e does to truth vs. satisfaction conditions.  If I say
> "I hereby command you to go away", can you possibly claim that the sentence
> is false and in fact I *don't* command you to go away?

Yes, you can claim it is false, and this is exactly the problem.
"Julius Caesar hereby commands/commanded you to go away" is false.
The problem is that the grammatically-specified illocutionary function
(command, assertion, etc.) has 'scope' over the entire propositional
content of the sentence. Thus "Go away" is

   command: you go away

while "I hereby command you to go away" is

   assertion: I use this utterance to command you to go away.

----
And