Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by nfs2.digex.net with SMTP id AA18814 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 28 Jan 1995 18:42:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199501282342.AA18814@nfs2.digex.net> Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4174; Sat, 28 Jan 95 18:43:48 EST Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2877; Sat, 28 Jan 1995 18:43:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 23:39:49 +0000 Reply-To: ucleaar Sender: Lojban list From: ucleaar Subject: Re: replies re. ka & mamta be ma X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Bob LeChevalier In-Reply-To: (Your message of Fri, 27 Jan 95 19:18:30 MST.) Status: RO X-From-Space-Date: Sat Jan 28 18:42:06 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Chris: > >> Perhaps adding "ca'e" would help: does "ko klama" mean "ca'e mi minde lenu > >> do klama"? > >{cahe} = "I define"? I don't understand. I suspect you might be seeking > >a rendition of "hereby", though I don't see how this might relate to > >{cahe}. > I believe you are mistaken about the meaning of "ca'e". It's glossed as "I > define", but the reference grammar describes it as a particle which creates > a performative. Isn't that exactly what "hereby" does? I'm rather baffled about what the link between "I define" and creating a performative can be. Whatever the explanation is, I agree that "hereby" is used to flag, if not to create, performatives. > >Anyway, if it is "hereby" you're after, then I agree it's almost > >a solution, as follows: > > dei minde le nu do klama > >or > > dei nu mi minde le nu do klama > >I say "almost a solution", because technically the utterances are > >assertions, subject to truth-conditions rather than satisfaction- > >conditions. > I'm not sure what ca'e does to truth vs. satisfaction conditions. If I say > "I hereby command you to go away", can you possibly claim that the sentence > is false and in fact I *don't* command you to go away? Yes, you can claim it is false, and this is exactly the problem. "Julius Caesar hereby commands/commanded you to go away" is false. The problem is that the grammatically-specified illocutionary function (command, assertion, etc.) has 'scope' over the entire propositional content of the sentence. Thus "Go away" is command: you go away while "I hereby command you to go away" is assertion: I use this utterance to command you to go away. ---- And