Return-Path: Received: from fiport.funet.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rYOIU-00007VC; Sun, 29 Jan 95 03:19 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494) id <01HMEFIWKVE8000UG9@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 01:14:52 +0200 (EET) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7732; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 02:15:39 +0100 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 18:08:38 -0700 From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: replies re. ka & mamta be ma Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: Chris Bogart Message-id: <01HMEFIWX706000UG9@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Length: 1219 Lines: 23 And: >I'm rather baffled about what the link between "I define" and creating >a performative can be. Whatever the explanation is, I agree that "hereby" >is used to flag, if not to create, performatives. Well, "I define" isn't quite right but there really is no English equivalent phrase which changes a statement into a performative. I think you're right that "hereby" only flags, not creates, performatives. >Yes, you can claim it is false, and this is exactly the problem. >"Julius Caesar hereby commands/commanded you to go away" is false. If we were to assume that ca'e is NOT "hereby", but truly makes a performative, it'll be tricky to extract a useful meaning from: "ca'e la djuliys siz,r ca minde lenu do to'omo'i klama"; it's a silly sentence, but my guess about the interpretation would be that the speaker is thereby redefining their personal ideolect such that that statement is true, by stretching the meaining of "minde" in some unspecified way. That would be consistent with the example in the grammar, "ca'e le re do cu simxu speni" (I now pronounce the two of you to be married) -- in a sense we're redefining "simxu speni", if the 'definition' of a selbri is the set of sumti which make it true.