Return-Path: Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rVIKX-00007TC; Fri, 20 Jan 95 14:20 EET Received: from fiport.funet.fi (fiport.funet.fi [128.214.109.150]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA12409 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 1995 14:20:40 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494) id <01HM2I0N9O1S0000MU@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:16:09 +0200 (EET) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1751; Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:17:14 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:18:51 +0100 (MET) From: Goran Topic Subject: Re: ago, call for opinions Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: Goran Topic Message-id: <01HM2I0NBXZM0000MU@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: Lojban Listserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2109 Lines: 59 What do you others think? If you disagree with me, I'll back down... :) If you haven't been following the thread, xorxes and me are discussing expressing specific distances as a tense structure. va'imu'a the sentences The kids are playing thirty metres away. I went to the market two days ago can in the present state of the grammar be expressed only as lo mitre beli cino cu sepli ti lo jaibu'u kelci befai lei verba (assuming I got the {jai} thing right) lo djedi beli re cu temci lo cabna lenu mi klama lo zarci xorxes proposes that we change the meaning of {VI/ZI } to mean the distance rather that offset, so that we can express those sentences as lei verba cu kelci va lo mitre beli cino mi klama lo zarci za lo djedi beli re which, by current definitions, means The children are playing somewhere around the 30-meter thing. I went to the market two days from or after some, here not specified, time. I don't know how he proposes to translate "The children are playing around the school", much less "The children are playing 30 metres from the school". xorxes, your turn. (I hope I did not misquote your thoughts.) My proposal is to introduce new cmavo {xe'i} (with aspirations of {te'i}hood one day :), modeled on {temci}) to signify distances, so we could say lei verba cu kelci xe'i lo mitre beli cino (or, alternative proposal, {xe'ife'e}) mi klama lo zarci xe'i lo djeci beli re And it makes no problem about expressing the other two sentences I mentioned, for which I don't remember xorxes to have found the translation in the universe of his proposal as yet: lei verba cu kelci va lo ckule lei verba cu kelci va lo ckule xe'i[fe'e] lo mitre beli cino Well, that's it, folks... co'o mi'e. goran. noi darsi co ciksi loi sidbo befi la xorxes. vau vau zo'o to .u'i .i lo'u vau vau le'u xajmi gi'eri'abo se fanva fi la gliban. lo bangrxrvatska zoi gy. Wuff! Wuff! .gy. .u'i toi -- Learn languages! The more langs you know, the more incomprehensible you can get e'udoCILreleiBANgu.izo'ozo'onairoBANguteDJUnobedocubanRI'a.ailekadonaka'eSELjmi