Return-Path: Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rWIqT-00007TC; Mon, 23 Jan 95 09:05 EET Received: from fiport.funet.fi (fiport.funet.fi [128.214.109.150]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA06944 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:05:47 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494) id <01HM6DV8YSSG000D27@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 07:01:14 +0200 (EET) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6395; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:02:19 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 07:04:25 +0000 From: ucleaar Subject: Re: whiskey lovers In-reply-to: (Your message of Mon, 23 Jan 95 01:48:10 EST.) <199501230648.AA24987@access1.digex.net> Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: ucleaar Message-id: <01HM6DV9NW0M000D27@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 921 Lines: 18 > Since melbi hass 4 places, "ka melbi" is 'possessed' (whatever that means) > by an object that is perceived beautiful, an observer, an aspect that is found > beautiful about the object, and an aesthetic standard. There is no stronger > tie to the beautiful object thhan to the aesthetic standard in "ka melbi". > The property of a relationship srana all of the sumti of that relationship > The object possesses no beauty in Lojban independent of the observer, aspect, > and standard. Sorry to keep going on about this, but I'm still not clear what {ka} means. I take on board what you say (and conclude that I've hitherto misunderstood the meaning of {ka}). What is the essential difference between {ka zzohe xunre}, on the one hand, and {duhu zohe xunre}, {nu zohe xunre} and {lihi zohe xunre} on the other? Is it a way of talking about the semantic selbri - the relationship that holds between the sumti? --- And