Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 20:07:28 -0500 (EST)
From: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Subject: Re: replies re. ka
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
To: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Reply-to: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Message-id: <01HMH7MI0VYA001GGH@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>
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This may be a repeat. I already posted an answer to this a couple
of days ago, but And didn't receive it, so maybe it never reached the list.

(to doi goran mi spusku bau la gliban ki'u le nu krefu le nu mi pu spusku
kei li re toi)

And:
>   Ex, she knows that x is the identity of the set of the colours of the
>     house.

(1)     ko'a djuno le du'u le zdani cu skari makau

(2)     da zo'u ko'a djuno le du'u da ka du lo'i se skari be le zdani

If the house is blue, then (1) tells me that she knows that the house is
blue, while (2) tells me that she knows what is the identity of the set
{blue}. Are those two equivalent?

> But anyway, the identity of the set is the sum of those properties
> that differentiate the set from all others. Why can one not like
> this sum of properties?

I don't see how liking the sum of properties of the set {blue} can be
equivalent to liking that the house is blue.

> > How would you say {ko'a cusku le sedu'u xokau prenu ba klama} = "She
> > said how many people are coming."
>
>   Ex, she said that x is the cardinality of the set of people that are
>    coming.

Right, but then you have to speak of cardinalities and sets. Do you
suggest that as a colloquial form? What is "cardinality" in Lojban?

> ... But do we need
> makau? Say koha is red and kohe is blue. Then
>
>   ro da, da is member of {koha, kohe}, ro de, da skari de:
>      koha kohe frica le ka keha skari de
>
> says that being red and being blue are differences between koha and
> kohe. I don't see what your objections to this are going to be, but
> I'm sure there will be some. Look at this as practice for explaining
> to the community at large.

What you give is equivalent to:

   ro de poi se skari ko'a a ko'e zo'u:
        ko'a ko'e frica le ka ke'a skari de

You can even limit it to only colours that they don't have in common by
changing {a} to {onai}.

But that is still two sentences: {ko'a ko'e frica le ka ke'a skari *blue*
ije ko'a ko'e frica le ka ke'a skari *red*}.

Does {ko'a ko'e frica le ka ke'a skari *red*} mean that one of them is
red and the other isn't, or that they are each of a different type of
redness? To me, it's the latter.

Jorge