From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Thu Feb 9 18:44:29 1995 Message-Id: <199502092344.AA23280@nfs1.digex.net> Date: Thu Feb 9 18:44:29 1995 From: Jim Carter Subject: Re: jorne Lojbab replying about jorne: > BTW, my dictionary (American as it may be) specifically mentions > symbolism as an integral part of the defintion for flag, and for > all but one definition of banner... When I was younger I made a set of flags. One was the personal standard of the Count of Star Mountain (in Transylvania; he wore his grandfather's cloak to school on cold days). Two were not officially authorized, i.e. were created by me, but were intended to symbolize specific people. And the last was simply an abstract design that I found pleasing. I would hold that all four are flags, even though the last fails to fit either the Lojban or American definition since it lacks a referent. In the eye of the beholder the "referent" place is filled by an implicit pronoun for the unknown (to him) referent. When he asks and finds out that there is no referent, what does he put in the place? I find that I fill the place with a special value for a "potential" referent. In other words, I will admit into a relation an object that is missing some places. Sloppy, sloppy... Nonetheless, I support the "lean lujvo" idea of using BAI for many presently defined miscellaneous places. However, as an exception, I find useful the 4 or 5 numbered places on motion words. Fortunately they are (or should be) uniform in definition. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6221 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90024-1555 Internet: jimc@math.ucla.edu BITNET: jimc%math.ucla.edu@INTERBIT UUCP:...!{ucsd,ames,ncar,gatech,purdue,rutgers,decvax,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!jimc