Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rhnE2-00001pC; Fri, 24 Feb 95 01:45 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3415; Fri, 24 Feb 95 01:45:54 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3413; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 01:45:54 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8387; Fri, 24 Feb 1995 00:42:01 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 18:47:02 EST Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Subject: Re: Existence and occurrence of events (was: ago24 & replies) X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 721 Lines: 20 la kris cusku di'e > Minor nitpick: I think you mean to say "mi troci lonu da muvdu lo rokci". > Rokci takes an agent in the first place and a moved-thing in the second. ----- muvdu That was the old muvdu, the new one doesn't have an agent, but it's easy to get the old meaning back: muvgau. The strange thing is that muvdu only covers a very limited set of motions, only translations. If an object rotates, it isn't muvdu. For points, the only type of movement possible is translations, but for more general bodies, there are other types. Rigid bodies can rotate in place, but that is not muvdu. Non-rigid bodies have much more freedom of movement, but again they don't muvdu unless they change position. Jorge