Message-Id: <199502070259.AA27435@nfs1.digex.net> From: ucleaar Date: Mon Feb 6 21:59:57 1995 Subject: Re: jorne X-From-Space-Date: Mon Feb 6 21:59:57 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu Jorge: > > > i pe'i au lo me zo zi'o selbri cu selplixau nagi'a dunli > > > lo na'e me zo zi'o selbri > > Which means {ziho} is never appropriate? > i pe'i go'i > i ki'ubo rinka le nu jundi da poi da'i na zasti > i si'a tu'a lo me zo se cmavo cu judri'a ra I don't know how {bo} works. I think I get the point though. I think one of the reasons I originally supported it was that I suspected that when people use gismu they don't check that it is appropriate for zohe to fill all otherwise unfilled sumti places. I hoped that scrupulous use of ziho by some people might shake things up a bit. In fact, setting aside the matter of resulting tanruey vagueness, filling empty places by ziho rather than by zohe might actually be a better guarantee against saying what one hadn't intended to. All that said, I largely agree with you. However, I still hope that were I to forsake English for Lojban for more than the extremely occasional utterance I would use ziho. My personal case for this is lanci x1 is a flag/banner/standard of/symbolizing x2 with pattern(s) x3 on material x4 I set aside virtual flags made of no material, or transparent flags with no pattern, which are improbable circumstances. It is the x2 that bugs me. I don't think it shouldn't be there, for by it we may speak of the flag of France, and so on. But it irks me that a flag that isn't the flag of anything isn't a lanci. I feel it has a right to be a lanci, and if it can't be then at least it can be a lanci fe ziho. It occurs to me that I may have hit upon an atypically compelling case for ziho. Perhaps {lanci} shouldn't have its x2, and "flag of" shd be {snilanci}. But possibly-bad place structures will be baselined & won't go away. > > A favoured example > > when {ziho} was proposed was {klama fo ziho} for teleportation > > (which I think is like what jeff Goldblum used in The Fly). > i pe'i zo klama cu plana gismu > i mi mutce neirmau lu klama fo zi'o fu zi'o li'u Me too. Incidentally, I think {zmanei}, used recently, I noticed, by both me & Iain, is better than {neirmau}, since you basically want the place structure of nelci rather than zmadu, & dikyjvo/jvajvo rules say the last rafsi is primary determinant of place structure. I think. > i ku'i zo klama ca'a ponse mu tersumti > i seki'ubo mi na pilno zo klama tu'a zoi gy teleportation li'u > i cumki fa le nu pilno zo benji Lahe lu klama fo ziho fu ziho lihu 3 tersumti ponse. --- And