Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rfcuf-00001GC; Sat, 18 Feb 95 02:20 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8635; Sat, 18 Feb 95 02:21:00 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8633; Sat, 18 Feb 1995 02:20:59 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1709; Sat, 18 Feb 1995 01:17:18 +0100 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 00:19:49 +0000 Reply-To: ucleaar Sender: Lojban list From: ucleaar Subject: Re: Gricean formula? X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: (Your message of Thu, 16 Feb 95 22:27:51 MST.) Content-Length: 1616 Lines: 49 Kris: > pc: > >> (indeed, mentioning trying usually suggests -- not so > >> Griceanly -- the failing). > and: > >The only way in which "try" implies "fail" is 'Gricean'. > zoi gy. Grice gy. mo? Philosopher responsible for the influential idea that utterance interpretation is a product of literal sentence meaning and very general principles that apply to communication in general, and not to any specific language. [It may seem an obvious idea, but if you read linguistics from pre 1970s you realize that at the time it wasn't.] He had more to say than this, and more specific proposals, but this, I take it, is roughly what we mean by 'Gricean'. > .i pau gy. kukte se stasu xu? No. Or at least such a meaning is not in the least what was intended. I feel confident pc wd concur. > .ija pau mi gy. ka'e pilno lenu lo karce co'a minra xu? Not this either, even though I've no idea what {lo karce coha minra} is. > .ija pau rinka lenu le denci cu blabi xu? No. > .iku'i na vajni vau .i ko mrilu pa bakfu be la gric. mi > ba'e ca .au I hope you're not disappointed. > ni'oni'o mi ba'o tcidu lei datni be la guaspis noi drata > selfinti bangu .i la guaspis cu se dzena la lojban. joi la > loglan. gi'e mutce cinri .i lei datni cu se stuzi zoi by. > http://www.math.ucla.edu/%jimc by. .i zasti fa le cinri > nuncasnu be fi le nunsmuni be lei bridi be'o be'o noi mi > jinvi ledu'u la xorxes. joi la .and. cu lakne se cinri How about reporting on what jimc says? If not on Lojban list, then on, say, Conlang - though perhaps matters perinent to "generic loglan" might not be out of place on this list. --- And