Return-Path: Received: from fiport.funet.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rairQ-00001EC; Sat, 4 Feb 95 13:41 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494) id <01HMNEZVDR00002BOD@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Sat, 04 Feb 1995 11:36:39 +0200 (EET) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3349; Sat, 4 Feb 1995 12:37:33 +0100 Date: Sat, 04 Feb 1995 06:38:38 -0500 From: Logical Language Group Subject: jorne Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: Logical Language Group Message-id: <01HMNEZVF15E002BOD@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Content-Length: 2578 Lines: 62 >From: Iain Alexander >Subject: ju'i LLG Re: ko .a'o fraxu mi... > >I'm putting this up front in English to improve the chances >of a response from someone in LLG. > >Jorge thinks that > >jorne jon jo'e joined >x1 is joined to/connects to/is united with x2 at common locus x3; >x1 and x2 are a union 6f 34 >[also joined/fastened/attached by joint x3/by means of x3/with fastener x3; >fastener (= jo'etci, jonvelyla'a); train, sequence of joined objects >(= jonpoi; porjo'e for a single object joined into a sequence)]; >(cf. lasna, fenso, kansa, pencu, penmi) > >is restricted to situations where the two objects meet at a point, or at >least are close together. Can it be used for two points being connected >by a line (which I was trying to use it for), or the cord joining a >television to the electric plug, or whatever? This one isn't as tricky as I first thought. Jorge may not understand a necessary convention of the gismu list, which is limited for LogFlash usage to columns less than 159 or so for content. Explanatory material beyond 160 can add to what is in the "main" definition. In this case >[also joined/fastened/attached by joint x3/by means of x3/with fastener x3; are alternates to "common locus x3", as is indicated by the "also" (usually an 'unlisted alternative' will be marked by "also", but I did this manually and could have missed some). One alternative to considering the line tyo be the x3 of the two points is that you clearly have a sequence of joined objects by one interpretation - the point ce'o the line ce'o the point are joined and of course the "joint" is then an ordered sequence with one less element. I find this elegant if not necessarily the easiest type of expression to ponder. lujvo distinguishing this type of non-common-locus joint from common locus joints might be a useful creation. >If not, what else do we use? Is > >lasna la'a fasten 'lash' >x1 (agent) fastens/connects/attaches/binds/lashes x2 to x3 with fastener x4 > 3f 17 [no implication that result is considered a >single object; although x2 and x3 may be reversible, x3 may be used for the >substrate, the fixed/larger object to which x2 becomes attached]; >(cf. jorne, fenso, jgena, batke, dinko, kansa) > >better (e.g. {zi'o lasna})? I still abhor zi'o and would thus never suggest it %^) Your Lojban discussion appears to have considered "linji" and "sirji" and "sepli". I would also consider "jbini" (between). And in a pinch, you have "pluta" (route). lojbab