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Date:         Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:35:59 +0000
Reply-To:     ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Existence and occurrence of events (was: ago24 & replies)
X-To:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
In-Reply-To:  (Your message of Tue, 21 Feb 95 20:25:29 EST.)
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Jorge:
> > > If the event I try for occurs, then I've succeeded. If some other related
> > > event occurs, but not the one I've tried for, then I've failed.
> > You're right if you translate it as {mi troci lo nu mi muvgau lo rokci}.
> > If you translate it as {mi troci lo nu lo rokci cu muvdu} then you're
> > wrong.
> Why? What do you mean by {mi troci lo nu lo rokci cu muvdu}?

I try to bring about an event of the rock moving. I try to get
the rock to move.

> Where does it say that I have to be the agent of the movement?

Nowhere.

> Does {troci} automatically have a {gasnu} implied, so that {mi
> troci lo nu <agentless event>} is really an elided form of {mi
> troci lo nu mi gasnu lo nu <said event>}?

No.
----
And