Return-Path: Received: from kantti.helsinki.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rnJre-00007ZC; Sat, 11 Mar 95 07:37 EET Received: from fiport.funet.fi (fiport.funet.fi [128.214.109.150]) by kantti.helsinki.fi (8.6.10+Emil1.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA07070 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 1995 07:37:21 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (MAILER@SEARN) by FIPORT.FUNET.FI (PMDF V4.3-13 #2494) id <01HNZYIHEMPC0015WE@FIPORT.FUNET.FI>; Sat, 11 Mar 1995 05:33:20 +0200 (EET) Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5187; Sat, 11 Mar 1995 06:33:36 +0100 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 22:20:59 -0700 From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: selbri as sumti Sender: Lojban list To: Veijo Vilva Reply-to: Chris Bogart Message-id: <01HNZYII0TDY0015WE@FIPORT.FUNET.FI> X-Envelope-to: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 812 Lines: 18 >The problem as I see it is one of quantifier order. When the >quantifiers don't commute, and the syntax allows only one order, >then there is something that can't be said without use of the >prenex. I think you're right. This was a tricky translation, and I wonder if it's possible to learn to say such things, verbally, on the fly, without making logical errors, using a prenex when necessary. I think it probably is learnable, but only if you have a computer reading your text which will be ruthlessly lojxarnu. Development of some kind of interactive lojban-speaking computer game or database or something should be on our collective list of things to do. ____ Chris Bogart \ / ftp://ftp.csn.org/cbogart/html/homepage.html Quetzal Consulting \/ cbogart@quetzal.com