From veion@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi Mon Mar 13 01:35:10 1995 From: veion@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi Subject: (off-list) BAI as selbri tcita Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 08:34:58 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 13497 Status: RO Message-ID: I have started working through all BAIs using them as selbri tcita. I have tried to invent reasonable examples of their use in the simplest of bridi. The English translations are not intended to be exact as it is often rather difficult to convey the precise modal meaning in a reasonably simple way. They are presently more like the keywords in the gismu list. There are some suggestions for idiomatic usage (ko'a sebau tavla = he speaks the language i.e. in the language of someone). In many cases the converted forms allow a rather precise differentiation of meaning as compared to English. Sometimes the translations - perhaps mistakenly - suggest a meaning akin to a sumti tcita of the form {BAI zo'e} or {BAI da}. I don't think this is a very grave mistake although I'm mainly trying to use it as a kind of crutch to aid in getting at the essence - a modal shift in the meaning of the basic bridi, a shift mostly not available in English or Finnish. Having worked through the set I think this type of selbri tcita forms an important and often extremely powerful expressional device. It takes a bit getting used to as most BAI don't translate very readily - one must in a way learn to sense the shift, to grok it in Lojban instead of trying to translate to some other tongue. I think a modal shift is both subtler and better defined than the related tanru as both components retain their meanings. I'm still working both on the examples and the 'translations', so I'm not yet posting this to the list. Veijo ---- ko'a ba'i cliva (he leaves) being replaced [by someone] ko'a seba'i cliva (he leaves) instead [of someone] ko'a teba'i zifre (he is free) [to the extent of being] replacable [under some circumstances] ko'a bai klama (he comes) compelled / under compulsion ko'a sebai tavla (he speaks) compellingly ko'a bau bacru (he utters something) in a language ko'a sebau tavla (he speaks) [in] the language ko'a tebau kakne (he is capable) linguistically [/of linguistic expression] le notci be'i zvati (the message is present) sent [by someone] ko'a sebe'i litru (he travels) transferring [something] ti tebe'i notci (this is a message) going sent [to somewhere] di'e vebe'i se tirna (the following is heard) coming sent [from somewhere] di'e xebe'i se djuno (the following is known about) coming sent [via some medium] ko'a ca'i cliva (he leaves) authorized [by someone] ko'a seca'i minde (he commands) with authority [over something] ko'a teca'i minde (he commands) with authority [based on something] ti cau sarcu (this is necessary) being lacked [by someone] ko'a secau jmive (he lives) in lack ti ci'e sarcu (this is necessary) systemwise ti seci'e jendu (this is an axle) with systemic function ti teci'e lenjo (this is a lense) complex of some system components di'e ci'o vajni (the following is important) emotionally [felt by someone] ko'a seci'o tavla (he speaks) emoting ko'a teci'o tavla (he speaks) having emotion about something ti ci'u bancu (this is beyond something) scalarly ko'a seci'u cadzu (he walks) [on scale] measuringly di'e cu'u se tirna (the following is heard) as said [by someone] ti secu'u pixra (this is a picture) in an expressive way ti tecu'u lisri (this is a story) as told to someone mi di'e vecu'u djuno (I know the following) expressed in [some] medium di'e de'i se ciska (the following is written) dated / with a date ko sede'i klama (he comes) on the same date mi di'o zgana (I observe) at the locus [of something] ko'a sedi'o gunka (he works) at the point [/some specific locus] ko'a tedi'o zvati (he is present) within [some] range mi du'i citka (I eat) equally much ti sedu'i nandu (this is) equally (difficult) ti tedu'i se cuxna (this is chosen) as an equal [in some property] ti du'o ckape (this is) known (to be dangerous) ko'a sedu'o zukte (he acts) knowingly [/knowing some facts] ko'a tedu'o tavla (he speaks) knowingly [/knowing about something] di'e vedu'o jicmu (the following is) an epistemological (basis) ko'a fa'e cliva (he leaves) on the contrary ko'a sefa'e tugni (he agrees) in reversal [of something] ko'a fau sanga (he sings) at the occasion ti fi'e melbi (this is beautiful) being created [by someone] ko'a sefi'e ciska (he writes) creatively ti tefi'e lisri (this is a story) created for someone ti ga'a glare (this is hot) observervably [by someone] ko'a sega'a catlu (he looks) observingly ti tega'a porpi (this is broken) observably [by some means] ko'a vega'a badri (he is sad) observably [under some conditions] ti gau porpi (this is broken) by some active agent ko'a segau catke (he pushes) actively [in doing something] ko'a ja'e minde (he commands) with [some] result ko'a seja'e fraxu (he forgives) as a result [of something] le vorme ja'i ganlo (the door is closed) due to some rule mi di'e seja'i cusku (I write the followng) prescribingly [something by rule] mi teja'i zifre (I am free) by rule in something mi ji'e kakne (I am able) up to [some] limit seji'e banzu (enough!) as a limit of something ti teji'e glare (this is hot) limitedly ko'a ji'o kelci (he plays) under direction [of someone] ko'a seji'o zukte (he acts) controllingly ko'a teji'o zvati (he acts) in a controlled way [in something] di'e ji'u jetnu (the following is) fundamentally (true) [/based on something] di'e seji'u cusku (the following expresses something) in support tu ka'a te djuno (Something is known about that over there) being gone to [by someone] ko'a seka'a cadzu (he walks) with some destination ti teka'a bloti (that is a boat) come from some origin ko'a veka'a virnu (he is brave) having come via some route ko'a xeka'a virnu (he is brave) having come by some transport mode ko'a ka'i tugni (he agrees) represented [by someone] / by proxy ko'a seka'i zvati (he is present) on behalf [of someone] ti teka'i jecta (this is a polity) represented [in something] ti kai blanu (this is blue) characterizing something ti sekai blanu (this is blue) characteristically ko'a ki'i te djuno (something is known about him) as a relation ti seki'i finpe (this is a) related (fish) ko'a teki'i vitke (he is a guest) with some relation ko'a ki'u fengu (he is angry) with reason di'e seki'u banzu (the following suffices) as reason [for something] ti koi cmalu (this is small) bounded by something ti sekoi se zbasu (this is built) as a boundary [of something] ti tekoi se zbasu (this is built) bordering / next to something ti ku'u vajni (this is important) in [some] culture / culturally ti seku'u vajni (this is important) in the culture [of someone] mi lau gunka (I work) somewhat ti sela'u mutce (this is much) as a quantity [of something] ti tela'u banzu (this suffices) as a quantity [on some scale] ti le'a vajni (this is important) classwise ti sele'a barda (this is large) as a category [of something] ti tele'a sepli (this is separate) classwise [defined by some quality] ko'a li'e klama (he comes) led [by someone] ko'a seli'e klama (he comes) leading [someone] ko'a teli'e klama (he comes) led [in some sequence] ti ma'i vajni (this is important) contextually (/in some reference frame) di'e sema'i vajni (the following is important ) as a standard (for something) ko'a tema'i jinga (he wins) according to rules mi mau ciska (I write) exceeded by someone ko'a semau djuno (he knows) more [than someone] mi me'a ciska (I write) undercut by someone mi seme'a tavla (I speak) less [than someone] ti me'e dinju (this is a building) with some name / named ti seme'e se pilno (this is used) as a name [for something] ti teme'e melbi (this is beautiful) as a name [to someone] ko'a mu'i klama (he comes) motivated (/because of some motive) di'e semu'i se pilno (the following is used) as a motive [for something] di'e mu'u jitfa (the following is false) by example dei semu'u se pilno (this bridi is used) as an example [of something] dei temu'u cnino (this bridi is new) as an example [in some set] di'e ni'i jetnu (the following is) logically (true) [/because of some logic] di'e seni'i fatci (the following is a fact) implying something di'e teni'i drani (the following is correct) as implied by some rules ko'a pa'a klama (he comes) in addition ti sepa'a se pilno (this is used) similarly [to something] ti tepa'a se cuxna (this is chosen) similarly [in some pattern] ti vepa'a blanu (this is blue) similarly [by some std] ti pa'u sarcu (this is necessary) partially ti sepa'u sarcu (this is necessary) as a part [of something] ti pi'o sarcu (this is necessary) being used [by someone] mi sepi'o kakpa (I dig) using some tool ti tepi'o kansa (this comes with) being used [for some purpose] ko'a po'i klama [they come] sequentially ti sepo'i se zbasu (this is built) in (some) order ti tepo'i se setca (these are inserted) sequenced [from some unordered set] ko'a pu'a cisma (he smiles) pleased [by something] ko'a sepu'a cisma (he smiles) in order to please mi pu'e finti (I create) by some process mi sepu'e ciska (I write) processing from some inputs mi tepu'e katna (I cut) processing into some outputs mi vepu'e finti (I create) stagewise [/passing through some stages] ko'a ra'a prenu (he is a person) concerned ko'a sera'a zukte (he acts) concerning something ti ra'i vifne (this is fresh) from the source ti sera'i se pilno (this is used) as a source [of something] ti rai cukta (this is a book) with some superlative ti serai pixra (this is a picture) superlative in something ti terai fasnu (this happens) at some extreme ko'a verai djuno (he knows) the most [/superlative among some] ti ri'a farlu (this falls) causally [because of something] ko'a seri'a darxi (he hits) causing something ti ri'i censa (this is holy) experienced by someone ko'a seri'i tcidu (he reads) experiencing something mi sau jmive (I live) requiring something ko'a sesau gunka (he works) necessarily [for something] ko'a tesau klama (he comes) necessarily [under some conditions] / (he is) is bound to (come) ko'a si'u klama (he comes) aided [by someone] ko'a sesi'u klama (he comes) assisting [someone] ko'a tesi'u gunka (he works) assisting [in something] ko'a tai gunka (he works) methodically ti setai vajni (this is important) methodologically [/as a method for something] ti tetai vajni (this is important) methodologicaly [/as a method under some conditions] ko'a ti'i sanga (he sings) suggested [by someone] ko'a seti'i tavla (he talks) suggestively ti teti'i tadji (this is a method) suggested [to someone] ti ti'u fasnu (this is an event) associated with the time ko'a seti'u klama (he comes) simultaneously mi teti'u cliva (I leave) on the date of time [needs context] do veti'u zvati (you are present) at the loc of time [needs context] ko'a tu'i gidva (he is a guide) associated with the site ti setu'i se pilno (this is used) as a location [of something] ti va'o porpi (this breaks) conditionally [/under some conditions] ti seva'o lenku (this is cold) as conditions [for something] ko'a zau zvati (he is present) as approved [by someone] ko'a sezau tavla (he speaks) approvingly ti zu'e porpi (this is broken) by someone [active agent] ko'a sezu'e sidju (he helps) actively [employing some means] ko'a tezu'e ctuca (he studies) actively [with some goal]