Message-Id: <m0rmo15-00007ZC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Thu, 9 Mar 1995 18:06:07 +0000
Reply-To:     ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: selbri as sumti
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
In-Reply-To:  (Your message of Tue, 07 Mar 95 20:17:26 EST.)
Content-Length: 2670
Lines: 83

Thanks to Chris & Jorge for attempts at my sumti/tersumti chimera.
I do not think the attempts successful.

Chris:
> >PROBLEM ONE
> >How can we say "I always do my shopping on the same day of the
> >week"?
>         mi vecnu ca ro lo pa jefydje

{lo pa jefydje} means (I believe) that there is only one jefydje.
{ro lo pa jefydje} = "each of the one weekday". Not what I'm
after.

> ta'o I don't understand why you used "ca ro me da" in your attempt rather
> than "ca ro da".

da is a weekday (one of Mon/Tues/Wed/...). Say it is Monday. {me da}
then gives the predicate Monday(x) - x is a Monday. {ro me da} then
means "every Monday".

Jorge:
>        mi klama le zarci ca pa jefydje ca ro jeftu

I don't see how {pa jefydje} works. I'd have thought that {pa jefydje}
is the category of Mondays (or Tuesdays, etc.). I don't klama during
the category of Mondays. I klama during Mondays.

Note that "I do my shopping every Monday" is peasy:

        mi klama le zarci ca ro pavydje

Chris:
> >PROBLEM TWO
> >"I ate a strange kind of fish". What I ate was not strange.
> >This seems to me to mean:
> > (a) X is the category of subcategories of the category of fish
> > (b) Ey X(y), strange(y)
> > (c) Ez Y(z), I ate (z)
>        mi citka da .i da finpe de .i de cizra
>        mi citka le finpe be de poi cizra
> or maybe
>        mi citka le finpe be lo cizra
Jorge:
>        mi pu citka lo finpe be lo cizra

"Strange kind" doesn't necessarily mean "strange species". Species
are not the only kinds. Moreover, your method will not generalize to:

   I ate a strange kind of food.
   I read a strange kind of book.

Chris:
> >PROBLEM THREE
> >"Today I performed my quotidian activities":
> >  (a) X is a subcategory of the category of my activities
> >  (b) Quotidian(X)
> >      [Where if Quotidian(X) then Ad day(d) Ez X(z) & z happens
> >       on d]
> >  (c) Ey X(y) I performed y
>        mi ca le cabdei cu gasnu lei se gasnu be ca ro djedi
> or maybe
>        mi ca le cabdei cu gasnu lei mi roldje selgau
> or
>        mi cabdei gasnu lei mi roldje selgau

I'll ignore the tanru, as they're too vague.
{se gasnu be ca ro djedi}: It's hard to think of anything that
satisfies the predicate Is-an-activity-occurring-every-day. Maybe
a team of bridge painters, working 24 hours a day, year after year.
Certainly teeth cleaning isn't such an activity: each event of
teeth cleaning happens on only one day. Yet it is quotidian.

Perhaps {mi ca le cabdei cu gasnu pisuho lei se gasnu be mi beho
noi cabna ro djedi} is a workaround. But not the sort of solution
I'm seeking.

Jorge:
>        ca le cabdei mi ba'o gasnu lei mi roldei selzukte

No tanru, please.

---
And