Message-Id: <m0rjpOB-00007AC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Wed, 1 Mar 1995 15:24:02 MET
Reply-To:     Goran Topic <topic@MATH.HR>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Goran Topic <topic@MATH.HR>
Subject:      Re: indirect commands?
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 2507
Lines: 73

.i lo xe glifanva cu se lidne di'e

> la lojbab cusku di'e
>
> > So, how to express (addressing George) "Tell John to meet Mary at the park."
>
> Very interesting. One way to translate it is:
>
>         ko minde la djan le nu dy penmi la maris le panka
>
> Or maybe {sidmi'e}, if {minde} is too strong. But that is not really an
> indirect command. That would be:
>
>         ko cusku fi la djan fe le sedu'u kokau penmi la maris le panka
>
> It might work, but there needs to be an audience place in the main
> bridi, so that there is a meaningful referent for {ko}.

.i pe'i di'e se fanva fuzoi gy. You! Tell John that it is you! whom I
command to meet Mary at the park. .gy. no'u zoi gy. Meet Mary at the
park! Tell John that you'll do so! .gy. .i mi smadi lenu lo po'o cmavo
be zo doi joi zo coi ku po'o kakne lenu jai sniga'i zo do .e zo ko .i
lonu sitna cu sarcu pe'i lenu na smupai tu'a zo ko ca lonu cusku le
jufra .i .e'u lu ko cusku fi la djan. fe lu ko penmi la maris. le panka
li'u no'i lo glibau .eji'a le mi bangu na cusku lo remei ke minde selsku


> > This is a recursive problem:  "Tell John to tell Jim to tell Nora to tell
> > Mary to meet me in the park."

.i .e'u lu ko minde la djan. lenu ri minde la djim. lenu ri minde la noras.
lenu minde la meris. lenu ri penmi mi lo panka li'u

> > Nora points out that you can do the same
> > thing with indirect questions as well ("Ask/tell John to ask Mary
> > whether she
> > will meet Jim in the park.")

.i zo kau na jai nabmi .iku'i zo ko go'i

> > Does kokau work in these indirect commands?
>
> I think it does.

pe'inairu'e

> > Or is the problem middle of the night muddled thinking from someone who has
> > been studying Russian too much lately?

.i .uanai la'ede'u lo ru'orbau ma ckini

> Jorge


.i glifanva fuzoi gy. I think this translates to: "You! Tell John that
it is you! whom I command to meet Mary at the park", i.e. "Meet Mary at
the park! Tell John that you'll do so!" I thought that only DOI and COI
selma'o can change the value of {do}. I think it's necessary to quote to
avoid the premature evaluation of {ko}. I suggest {ko cusku fi la djan.
fe lu ko penmi la maris. le panka}. Besides, neither English nor my
language use two imperatives together.

{kau} is not a problem. {ko} is.

Huh? What has Russian got to do with this? .gy.

co'o mi'e. goran.

--
Learn languages! The more langs you know, the more incomprehensible you can get
e'udoCILreleiBANgu.izo'ozo'onairoBANguteDJUnobedocubanRI'a.ailekadonaka'eSELjmi