Message-Id: <m0s8EdE-0009acC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Sun, 7 May 1995 18:19:10 EDT
Reply-To:     jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Subject:      ci cribe
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1702
Lines: 53

The question was how to interpret:

        le ci cribe cu batci ri

It could either be "each of the three bears bites itself", or
"each of the three bears bites each of the three bears".

I think it should be the first. The argument would be that to
identify what is the referent of {ri}, one should look at the
prenex form of the sentence:

        ro da voi cribe zo'u: da batci ri
        For each x that I'm calling a bear: x bites x.

The simple rule for ri "it repeats the last sumti" doesn't work
in general. For example:

        lo cribe cu batci ri
        At least one bear bites itself.

does not mean the same as:

        lo cribe cu batci lo cribe
        At least one bear bites at least one bear.

{ri} does not repeat the last sumti, but rather it has the same
referent as the last sumti. When the last sumti has more than
a single referent, it means that the bridi is expressing more
than one relationship, and {ri} should repeat the referent in
each relationship, but not mix them.

To get the second meaning, I would say:

        le ci cribe cu batci rori

In this case, the prenex form would be:

        ro da voi cribe ku'o ro de voi cribe zo'u: da batci de
        For each x of what I'm calling bears, for each y of what
        I'm calling bears: x bites y.

But we probably wouldn't want to be so precise. That sentence
actually expresses nine relationships. A more common way of
speaking would probably be:

        lei ci cribe cu batci ri
        The three bears bite themselves.

Here, we are describing a single event, with the three bears
as the referent. It is not specified which or how many of the
three mouths bites which or how many of the three bodies.

Jorge