Return-Path: <@SEGATE.SUNET.SE:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sBFPr-0009acC; Tue, 16 May 95 08:43 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id 32D23E1A ; Tue, 16 May 1995 7:43:28 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 01:22:49 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: Reflexivity X-To: dpt@abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 757 Lines: 19 Looking at the debate on sevzi, I suspect that the wording of the definition is the weak point. "self-image" was specifically intended by me to refer to reflexivity. But English had no obvious word for it. "He loves his reflexive" (???). I see no problem in my image of sevzi with saying "le toknu cu lumci leri sevzi as being essentially identical in meaning to "le toknu cu lumci ri" I can probably be convinced that there is indeed a separate concept of "Self" that sevzi should cover, and we need a different way to lujvo-ize a reflexive. I might be inclined to just give "ri" a rafsi - "riz" is the only relevant one available though. And the rafsi assignments for sevzi assumed the usage frequency implicit in its being the reflexive. lojbab