From @uga.cc.uga.edu:lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Fri May 26 21:58:27 1995 Received: from punt2.demon.co.uk by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA3109 ; Fri, 26 May 95 21:58:21 BST Received: from punt2.demon.co.uk via puntmail for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk; Fri, 26 May 95 00:57:09 GMT Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by punt2.demon.co.uk id aa04148; 26 May 95 1:57 +0100 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3462; Thu, 25 May 95 20:55:10 EDT Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6670; Thu, 25 May 1995 20:55:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 20:58:20 EDT Reply-To: jorge@phyast.pitt.edu Sender: Lojban list From: jorge@phyast.pitt.edu Subject: Re: Quantifiers X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Iain Alexander Message-ID: <9505260157.aa04148@punt2.demon.co.uk> Status: R la i,n cusku di'e > > mi facki le du'u le cukta cu cpana le jubme > > I discover that the book is on the table. > > > > mi facki le du'u makau cpana le jubme > > I discover what's on the table. > > .u'i'i'i'i You appear to have interpreted Dylan's "first place > of {facki}" as "second place of {facki}", whereas I think > he meant "first place of {fatci}". Now I see why he said first place. > *le du'u makau cpana le jubme cu fatci* > > is grammatical, but not meaningful in the sense we usually think > of {fatci}. I can however think of circumstances where we would > say something similar in English, meaning that the contents of > the table-top are a matter of fact, not open to dispute. I'm not > sure if this would be malglico, or if there's a better way of > expressing this in Lojban. That's how I would interpret it. What is the usual sense of fatci? Doesn't {le du'u le cukta cu cpana le jubme cu fatci} mean that that the book is on the table is a matter of fact, not open to dispute? In what other sense could it be a fact? The sentence with {le cukta} implies the one with {makau}, which says the same but without mentioning what's on the table, just as in the case of {facki}. > I can't however think of interpretations > for the corresponding bridi with {jetnu} or {jitfa}. How about something like: i la djan pu cusku le sedu'u le cukta cu cpana le jubme ije le plise cu cnita le stizu i le du'u makau cpana le jubma cu jetnu iku'i le du'u makau cu cnita le stizu cu jitfa i le tamca enai le plise cu cnita le stizu co'o mi'e xorxes