Message-Id: <m0s9YCP-0009acC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Thu, 11 May 1995 09:17:41 -0400
Reply-To:     Dylan Thurston <dpt@MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         Dylan Thurston <dpt@MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TEXT: le gunse ku joi le lorxu
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 3000
Lines: 82

coi xorxes

> coi dilyn  i ckire fi tu'a lei pinka
>
> > > i le de'e lisri cu xe fanva lo spano xe fanva be fo le bangrxaimara
> >
> > First: what are the principles of formation of 'bangrxaimara'?
>
> In order to borrow a word from another language:
> etc.; thanks
> That insures that the word can't be taken for a lujvo.

{zo'orai} That would explain why I couldn't parse it as a lujvo.

I remember reading about this now, but forget where.  What's the
reference for this and other phonology questions (what medial consonants
are allowed in forming lujvo, where the stress goes, etc.)?

> > > .ibabo le gunse cu cusku lu e'u ko klagau lei do panzi ti .i mi'o
> >
> > In the first bridi, why {ti} instead of {vi}?
>
> {vi} is not quite right because the action {klagau} doesn't happen
> nearby. I think {ti} works for "this place".

You're right; {vi} is not appropriate.  Even though it seems to be
accepted, I don't particularly like using {ti} here; it seems rather
vague.  It ought to be possible to make a more specific sumti for "here,
this place" (something similar to {dei} for utterances).  Perhaps {le
stuzi} or {le bu'u stuzi} instead of {ti}?

> > Can one person {klama ru'u le toknu} (come around the oven)?
>
> Why not? I don't like the many irrelevant places of {klama}, but what
> can I do? Any suggestions for how to say "go around the oven"?

I was confused; that helps, thanks.  {mi'o ru'u} would be more precise.
And, from the place structure, {klama} seems to be a journey with a
beginning and end.  How about using {litru}?

litru: x1 travels via route x2 using means x3

Maybe

        li'o litru le ru'u toknu

(More helpful stuff deleted)

> > > .ibabo ly tcefengu gi'e cusku lu ai mi ba sudgau le lalxe li'u .i ly
> > > pinxe ce'o pinxe mu'i le nu sudgau le lalxe .i ku'i ki'unai le nu
> > > mutce pinxe na snada le nu sudgau le lalxe .i le ly betfu ba'o plana
>
> > Could {le ly betfu ba'o plana binxo} also be written {le ly betfu ba'o
> > plana} or {le ly betfo ba'o binxo (lo/le) plana}?
>
> {ba'o plana} suggests to me that it is no longer plana, so I don't
> think that would be right. The other seems ok, with either {lo} or {le}.

Thanks.  Sorry to harp on tanru so much, but since they're supposed to all
be optional I like to know how to rephrase sentences without them,
particularly while learning.  (Also, it might be useful to look at.)

> > The meaning of the last two sentences seems very weird to me.  Is
> > "The fox dared to go while she was losing water from her back.  She
> > cried out in warning, 'Be careful!  Sharp leaf, don't cut me!'" a
> > correct translation?  Where's the fox going?  What on earth is a {kinli
> > pezli}?
>
> {dar} is the rafsi for {darno}, not {darsi}, so {darkla} would be
> "go away".

Oops.

> A {kinli pezli} would be something like a prick, I think. Other
> suggestions welcome.

How is it a kind of leaf (foliage)?  That's at least a metaphor, no?  But
if so, I still don't follow.

> co'o mi'e xorxes

co'o mi'e dilyn.