From @uga.cc.uga.edu:lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Fri Jun 02 22:54:50 1995 Received: from punt2.demon.co.uk by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA3237 ; Fri, 02 Jun 95 22:54:49 BST Received: from punt2.demon.co.uk via puntmail for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk; Fri, 02 Jun 95 16:15:08 GMT Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by punt2.demon.co.uk id aa21041; 2 Jun 95 17:14 +0100 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8393; Fri, 02 Jun 95 12:08:38 EDT Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5471; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:47:40 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:48:55 EDT Reply-To: jorge@phyast.pitt.edu Sender: Lojban list From: jorge@phyast.pitt.edu Subject: Re: quantifiers on sumti - late response X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Iain Alexander Message-ID: <9506021714.aa21041@punt2.demon.co.uk> Status: R la dilyn cusku di'e > How about just {lo cukta cu se skari da}? The order is important > here: "For some books: for some da (maybe depending on the book): the > book has color da". That's the question, is the order important? Actually, in this example it doesn't matter anyway. All it says is that at least one book has at least one color, and it would be the same in the reverse order. But for other quantifiers, the question is relevant. For example, what does {so'u cukta cu se skari pada} mean? Does it mean that a few books have a single color (maybe a different one depending on the book), or does it mean "there are a few books and there is a single x, such that those books have color x". I think order should be important, but I don't think this is discussed anywhere in the grammar papers. The other order {pada cu skari so'u cukta} would mean "there is only one x such that a few books are color x". > It's reasonable to say that elided places come at > the end of the prenex, in which case there's no problem with any of > these. The problem is not so much where come the elided places, but whether succesive general quantifiers have equal scope or not. (The problem with choosing the more "naturalistic" approach, where order matters, is that then the other meaning is impossible to achieve. The embedded scopes can always be forced with {lu'a} and company.) Jorge