Return-Path: <@SEGATE.SUNET.SE:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sOKMh-0000YpC; Wed, 21 Jun 95 10:38 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id DE409407 ; Wed, 21 Jun 1995 9:35:54 +0200 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 03:34:17 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: "manner" places X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1102 Lines: 24 >> Again, it seems like you are comparing plise and narju (a contrast that >> makes much more sense in Lojban than in English, since narju is not >> necessarily a fruit) %^) > >Even without comparing with anything, all the "manner" places seem >like clumsy appendices to the basic concept, and make learning gismu >more difficult. Depends on what you mean by "learning gismu". If you mean "learning place structures" - we did not put a high priority on having memorizable place structures - that was put in the category of "too-hard problem". If you mean "learning to use a gismu", I don't think it is true. A 'manner' place means that there is a "how?" question implicit in the concept. An "in what manner" question seems to make sense for cpedu in pretty much all circumstances, because requests are OFTEN conveyed in manners other than by voice. But for dunda, it seems pretty much that the type of thing given, and the nature of the donor and donatee determine the manner of giving. And plise and narju could have "in manner" places as well, but I have no idea what they would mean. lojbab