From @uga.cc.uga.edu:lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Tue Jun 27 22:30:23 1995 Received: from punt3.demon.co.uk by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA3642 ; Tue, 27 Jun 95 22:30:17 BST Received: from punt3.demon.co.uk via puntmail for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk; Tue, 27 Jun 95 18:39:17 GMT Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by punt3.demon.co.uk id aa05731; 27 Jun 95 19:38 +0100 Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3839; Tue, 27 Jun 95 14:36:17 EDT Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6621; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 13:42:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 10:42:01 -0700 Reply-To: Gerald Koenig Sender: Lojban list From: Gerald Koenig Subject: Re: ci gerku nicte X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Iain Alexander Message-ID: <9506271938.aa05731@punt3.demon.co.uk> Status: R xorxes sends me the feedback I need to work more on this problem: my sentence: >> ci remna ku so gerku zo'u ra pencu ri xorxes translation: >For each of exactly three humans, there are nine dogs that the human >touches. (Not necessarily the same ones for each human.) > >Jorge OK, from this I conclude that there can be more than 9 dogs, since on your interpretation human-1 can touch dog-1 to dog-9, and human-2 can touch others, "not necessarily the same ones for each human". Numbers are expressed in predicate calculus by long combinations of quantifiers and variables. Numbers are exact numerical claims, i.e. "3" means no more than three and no less than three. It means there are only 3 things in our universe of discourse. The shorthand way to express these is this notation: E!=1, E^!2=2, E^!3=3, etc. E^!9(y) gerku(y) asserts that there are exactly 9 objects satisfying gerku(y). I am translating the sentence as: E^!3(x)(remna(x) E^!9(y)(gerku(y) & pencu(x,y))) The scope of the quantifier on y is to the end of the sentence. It includes the y in pencu(x,y). We have asserted for the entire length of the sentence that there are exactly 9 dogs. Where do the extra dogs come from? I just don't think that the lojban covers the situation where at O hours gmt I touch 9 dogs in LA, you touch 9 dogs in Pittsburgh, and pc touches 9 dogs in Washington(?), for a total of 27 dogs. There are only 9 dogs in this universe of discourse. djer