Return-Path: <@SEGATE.SUNET.SE:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sUUwd-0000ZFC; Sat, 8 Jul 95 11:08 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id 7A9C7B02 ; Sat, 8 Jul 1995 9:55:54 +0200 Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 03:53:45 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: lu'o X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu X-cc: mail@access1.digex.net To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 999 Lines: 30 >> Given this >> ci remna cu citka mu zumri >> and >> mu zumri cu se citka ci remna >> >> both say that there are 5 ears of maize in this event collectively >> downed by 3 men. > >That could also be said as {lu'o ci remna cu citka lu'o mu zumri}, and >indeed it is the same as {lu'o mu zumri cu se citka lu'o ci remna}. > >> To get the alternate quantification, you need to say >> ro lo ci lo remna cu citka mu zumri >> mu zumri cu se citka ro lo ci lo remna >> Each of the 3 men separately downed 5 ears of corn. > >That's interesting. There is no direct gadri to say {lu'o mu zumri}. >Are you proposing that {mu zumri} be that? I think I would be in >favour. I don't know the difference you are seeing between "lu'o mu zumri" and "(piro) lei mu zumri" I see them as being the same regardless of what "mu zumri" means, except for the added flavor of veridicality. In any event, defining "mu zumri"="lu'o mu zumri" is recursive and doesn't help if we can't agree what the latter means. lojbab